Is there anything I should be doing as I feel like I'm being led down the garden path & conned ?

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Pauldg12

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Post by Pauldg12 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:56 pm
I am currently in month 63 of which I thought was supposed to be a 60 month arrangement, however, NTF added a modification that admittedly I didn't notice at the time for an additional 12 months.
NTF also appeared to have forgot about this as last summer, I went through the whole equity release procedure as you would 6months prior to ending the IVA. We were on the threshold of having equity (£500) so they extended as per the arrangement to a further 12 months. They have now highlighted the modification, and told me I need to go through the whole equity release saga again this summer where I may have to further extend by another 12 months meaning my IVA will be 2 years longer than I'd had hoped.
On top of this I received a letter today saying I was 3 month in arrears and this was my one month notice of bankrupcy! When I called they have told me that it was sort of a mistake and I am actually only 2.5 months in arrears. I have actually not missed a single payment, however, I have argued increases in my monthly contributions with the in the past, mainly because the threshold they set on there review sheet is unrealistic. They have agreed increases with me but now claim that because I am the equivalent of 2.5 monthly payments due to me not increasing my monthly payments, it is the same thing. for information my initial agreement was to pay £390 per month, I now pay £550 and this really is my limit.
is there anything I should be doing here. I feel like I'm being led down the garden path and conned.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:04 pm
The arrears building up they are measuring as an equivalent of monthly payments -- when you hit three months equivalent amount you will be in breach. This appears to be correct in they way they are approaching this.

However, despite this apparently agreed extension by NTF, equity has to be addressed in month 54, if that is what the arrangement states. If this results in a 12 month extension in lieu of equity, so be it. But they cannot repeat the exercise again! Equity has been addressed and 12 months extension agreed to deal with it -- end of equity story.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

Pauldg12

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Post by Pauldg12 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:54 pm
Thanks Foggy,
NTF have said that the 12 months increase for the equity release will kick in after the additional 12 months 'modification' they stuck on, hence the 24 months extra to what I initialy set out for. The arrogant representative from NTF reminded me that I am still paying back a lot less than I owe - like I didn't know that.

With regards to the arrears, at my yearly reviews, NTF won't reconise anything that is above the maximum allowance set by the financial professions, my monthly food shop being an example. Instead, they just set me at the maximum allowance, ignoring what I actually do spend and claim I owe them more money. I am literally at my maximum, my car is falling apart, my roof has holes in it and my boiler is on its last legs. The advise I get from NTF is to learn to budget within the maximim allowances. You would think I'm sat at home eating waitrose food just ticking the months off the calender!
 
 

Pauldg12

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Post by Pauldg12 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:07 pm
Also..to add, the modifications say we are to look to remortgage at month 66 but NTF made us do it on month 54.
They are also asking me to re-do all my PPI enquiries due to this modification which were done and reported back to NTF 12 months ago.
All a complete mess.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:08 pm
I am afraid, arguements about arrears apart that they are correct in applying 12 months in lieu of equity on top of the 12 months previously agreed.

I am, however, confused as to the original extension "by modification" ... what was this for ? Did the creditors add this at the initial meeting ( it would be detailed in your Chairman's Report) to increase the dividend. Was Northern Rock (NRAM) one of your creditors (they always do this) ?
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

Pauldg12

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Post by Pauldg12 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:17 pm
They didn't give us a reason but yes, it looks to have been added after the initial creditors meeting. Our initial agreement that we went through with Tudor Kirk states 60 months. We were then sent the chairmanship report to sign which contained the modification, but were never told it was in there. You could argue that we should have read it all throughly again before we signed but we didn't. Slightly underhand in my opinion for not mentioning this to us in the phone call after the IVA was agreed.
Also confusing that all correspondence from NTF up to know has indicated a 60 month plan, such as revising the equity release at 54 months. Looks like they didn't notice this either!
Yes, Northern Rock were one of the creditors.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:40 pm
Yes, they should have made it clear --- indeed they should have warned you beforehand as this is a common move by Northern Rock. However, at the time of setting up an IVA you are all over the place and things do get confused.

Anyway, if they did the valuation at month 54 and applied 12 months, they cannot do it again. They could, however, cancel the 12 months already applied, value at month 66 and apply the 12 months then. Pointless exercise if they do as the end result will still be an 84 month IVA.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

Michael Peoples

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Post by Michael Peoples » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:14 am
If these problems are not addressed at the meeting of creditors you can end up with two equity reviews. One set of creditors asks for it in month 54 and then NRAM extend the IVA and ask for the review to be done at month 66. Unless the IP gets the first set of creditors to withdraw their modification then there needs to be two reviews done to comply with the terms. It does seem silly which is why we always try and get these conflicts sorted out at the time.

If you are not happy about the payments and arrears you could ask for a full file review. Normally your IVA payments can only increase by 50% of any additional surplus income so the fact that your payments have risen by £160 per month means you should also be better off by £160 per month and the IVA should be getting easier each year. You should not be struggling after all this time.
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
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Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:06 am
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Foggy

Yes, they should have made it clear --- indeed they should have warned you beforehand as this is a common move by Northern Rock. However, at the time of setting up an IVA you are all over the place and things do get confused.

Anyway, if they did the valuation at month 54 and applied 12 months, they cannot do it again. They could, however, cancel the 12 months already applied, value at month 66 and apply the 12 months then. Pointless exercise if they do as the end result will still be an 84 month IVA.
Apologies .. my reply was not very clear. They can carry out the valuation exercise again, but, in my opinion, not extend again. If they rely on the modifications to extend twice you would have a reasonable case to contest the contract as unfair.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

Michael Peoples

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Post by Michael Peoples » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:20 am
This is true Foggy but hopefully no creditor would hold a client to this type of double-whammy. However it again shows why this potential conflicts need resolved at the meeting of creditors rather than becoming an issue many years down the line.
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
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If you would like to talk to me about proposing an IVA or have any questions at all please visit www.mccambridgeduffy.com
 
 

MrsR

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Post by MrsR » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:34 pm
So as we have a 72 month IVA to run- as Nram wanted an additional 12 months on top of the original 60 as a modification - they can then add 12 months on after this ?

I was told that we were to accept the modification as we were/are in negative equity and Nram needed the extra 12 months in place from the offset as they would be unlikely to get any equity after 60 months, therefore no need for any extra after the full 72.
Started IVA 27th Feb 2012 - Due to complete 27th Jan 2018 !!

Full & Final submitted and accepted 30th March 2015, paid 10th April 2015 - 3 yrs 1 month into IVA :)

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Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:27 pm
Yes, a 72 month IVA can be extended to 84 due to equity matters. NRAM habitually ask for 6 years at the outset regardless of the prospect of any extension. As they usually have the voting power to push this through, non acceptance of the 6 year term will result in the IVA being rejected. So, you are caught between a rock and a hard place.

If it transpires that there is no equity then you will get no extension.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

MrsR

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Post by MrsR » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:42 pm
Thank you for clearing that up foggy.

We would pay the extra 12 months if needed, but we really have no equity !
Started IVA 27th Feb 2012 - Due to complete 27th Jan 2018 !!

Full & Final submitted and accepted 30th March 2015, paid 10th April 2015 - 3 yrs 1 month into IVA :)

Completion Certificate received- 30th April 2015!!
 
 

Radish

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Post by Radish » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:32 am
If you dont have a mortgage and dont have Northern Rock as a creditor - The IVA would be completed 2 years earlier. Huge difference. I think I would look at Bancrupsy if I was in that boat. 7 years is a long time to be in an IVA.
IVA complete March 2014 after 6 years.
 
 

Pauldg12

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Post by Pauldg12 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:33 am
We currently pay nearly 15% of our monthly income into the IVA. The areeas have occurred as I had been reading the wrong 'standard conditions' for reporting increase of earnings and as my pay rise only equated to 7% of my normal take home pay, I assumed as it was under the 10% in the standard conditions, I didn't need to report. They made me increase payments by £119 per month.
They continue to not recognise what I say I spend on food which drives me mad. Food prices have increased by 37% since I took out the IVA, and my children are no longer babies. A recent government report found the average food bill for a family of 4 is £180 per week, (£720 per month), but NTF just insist I spend less.
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