My IVA completed in 2011. Can you please confirm the legalities of the 'Green v Wright' case ?

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JB3178

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Post by JB3178 » Sun May 15, 2016 11:20 am
I had an IVA which completed in 2011. I have recently been awarded a PPI payment and that has been sent to my former IP. I am currently undergoing a complaint process via Cleardebt in regard to that payment as I am aware of the green vs Wright case in regards to completed IVAs and that forms the basis of my complaint but perhaps you can answer me this question. That is in regard to the fact that my former IP is claiming that my PPI payment forms an asset of my original IVA. How is this at all possible?? The claiming of PPI was not possible at neither the commencement of my IVA nor at its completion when I was issued with a completion certificate. How is it possible that now 5 years down the line when PPI payments can be claimed this can be considered an asset that was in place at the time of my IVA?? im very confused and much of the info available out there seems very contradictory. Can you please confirm the legalities of this? My IVA used the standard R3 conditions at the time and the only modifications were surrounding windfalls DURING the course of my IVA
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Sun May 15, 2016 12:18 pm
Hi and welcome,

The court case is still ongoing at the moment so until that is sorted everything is still up in the air.

PPI is an asset and will be paid to your creditors. It is not a windfall.
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JB3178

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Post by JB3178 » Sun May 15, 2016 12:29 pm
But my question is how is that PPI an asset when PPI could not be claimed at the time of my IVA due to the fact that PPI refunds were nonexistent. I understand that they can form an asset now, but not in old completed IVAs. I understand about the unrealised asset clause, but still do not understand the legalities as classing PPI payments as unrealised assets since as I have outlined that asset was not existent at the time of the IVA. I'm shocked that this situation in regards to PPI payments has been allowed to get into this state and no clear guidelines or laws have been made. I'm sorry if this causes offence to some but it just seems to me that IPs are using the confusion in the law for their own personal gain. I understand that they must do everything in their power for the benefit of the creditors bla bla bla but when they stand to make a cut of about 30% of those claims then this seems to me to be their true motive
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Sun May 15, 2016 12:39 pm
Unfortunately it is classed as an asset - we have all been there and my IVA is completed but any PPI will go back to the creditors.

The IVA company will not see a penny of any payments, it will all go to the creditors unless the original debt has been paid in full.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
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stringyAcid

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Post by stringyAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 12:42 pm
in my opinion the asset did exist. The moment the ppi was sold to you was when the future refund became an asset. It was the mis selling that caused the refund to be due and that is when it knowingly or unknowingly becomes an asset of the iva. Remember most refunds of this nature include a payment that puts you back in to the financial position up to taking the policy. That for me shows it becomes an asset at the point of sale.
 
 

lifenoteasy

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Post by lifenoteasy » Sun May 15, 2016 12:47 pm
As the poster pointed out ppi was not identified as an asset or an issue during the iva or at completion.

Additionally they completed their iva 5 years ago and at that stage would not have signed a deed of assignment.

People are thinking like the iva companies and quite bluntly they are making it up as they go along.

During the same time period clear debt lost a court case linked to how an iva should be regarded. Protocol is at best a code of practice.
IVA started March 2011, Completed March 2016 and certificate issued 11 days after final payment. It was not always easy but then some of the best decisions aren't.
 
 

stringyAcid

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Post by stringyAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 12:57 pm
I think that's the point of the case isn't it. I don't think you will find any debtor past or present who doesn't agree with the debtors case, that the trust ends upon completion of termination.
 
 

lifenoteasy

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Post by lifenoteasy » Sun May 15, 2016 1:24 pm
The company involved with this case are one of the better ones and it's not the same terms.

However all companies would be better if they stopped the double talk, used plain English and actually communicated rather than selling the headline stuff around iva's.

With a notable few exceptions most ips just seem to be accountants who couldn't make it in the real world.

The above is a personal opinion only and is reflective of things I have said in the past.
IVA started March 2011, Completed March 2016 and certificate issued 11 days after final payment. It was not always easy but then some of the best decisions aren't.
 
 

JB3178

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Post by JB3178 » Sun May 15, 2016 2:27 pm
I just hope that the Green Wright case is finally sorted soon and hopefully in favour of debtors. I think it outgagous that people like myself who worked hard for 5 years to complete my IVA, to be issued with a completion certificate thinking that's it all over only to find that yet another 5 years down the line we find ourselves having to drag the whole thing back out of the woodwork by tactics of the banks and IPs interpreting obscure IVA terms to suit themselves. Clearly most of this is being done for the benefit of the IVA firms as I have found out that IPs can in fact claim 30% back of these claims as 'goodwill' payment for finding additional assets.

My biggest concern with the whole Green Wright case is that in cases such as mine when the PPI has been sent directly to the IP that's fine but what if the case finds in favour of the creditors, what then? If IPs are then allowed to go chasing for PPI payments in completed IVAs what happens to those people who have been sent PPI directly and spent the money seeing as our IVAs made no clause about having to contact them again about PPI seeing as it didn't actually exist at the time of completion. Are the IVA companies going to start taking all these people to court for the money?? That will be interesting. A debt management company taking someone to court pushing them into debt to claim back money that they had no idea should or not be included in their IVAs.
 
 

stringyAcid

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Post by stringyAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 2:45 pm
For the debtor then you will have DoA s popping through many iva ers letterboxes and or hold ups in completing.
For the creditor and specifically the trust remaining open after completion will lead to ppi being pursued up until it's death.
 
 

lifenoteasy

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Post by lifenoteasy » Sun May 15, 2016 3:58 pm
The stupid thing is that the creditors are the ones the ppi payments are coming from.

By the time they see any "benefit" at least 45% is taken out in fees.
IVA started March 2011, Completed March 2016 and certificate issued 11 days after final payment. It was not always easy but then some of the best decisions aren't.
 
 

stringyAcid

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Post by stringyAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 4:25 pm
What's the date we can say PPI Goodbye
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Sun May 15, 2016 4:26 pm
PPI claims finish in 2018
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

JB3178

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Post by JB3178 » Sun May 15, 2016 7:15 pm
Have there been any indications as to whether the appeal is likely to succeed this time? If it does succeed does this really mean that those of us in completed IVAs will be hounded by former IPs to sign new DOAs?? If this does then that is a disgrace. What then is the point of my completion certificate. It's not then completed. Just then a worthless piece of paper meaning that the insolvency practitioners are free to do whatever they like even years after completed IVAs and this stinks in my opinion.
The fairest judgment would be in my view to state that if no deed of assignment has been completed and there is no clause about PPI in IVA conditions plus a completion certificate has been issued then that is that. The IVA is complete!! If PPI payments then come to light then it's the fault of IPs for not putting these clauses into IVAs or in my case because they couldn't even be claimed at the times of older IVAs
 
 

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Post by stringyAcid » Sun May 15, 2016 7:34 pm
If the appeal succeeds the IP firm win therefore they will have argued that trust created in arrangement continues after issuing a cc and can then pursue and realise ppi.

If they don't win the appeal remember the debtor won in the lower court then they will most certainly go down the DoA avenue but only in active ivas as closed ivas will by the courts decision have had the trusts severed upon closure. Therefore in your case you would saying sorry matey that's my ppi.
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