DAMMING REPORT FROM THE OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING

Get expert opinion. This is the place for new questions to be posted.
74 posts Page 2 of 5
 
 

nomoremoney

User avatar
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:11 pm
Location:

Post by nomoremoney » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:46 pm
I understand the 'personal service aspect' that fee paying DMP firms provide that would outweight CCC's. However,on the freezing of interest, I am not convinced that any DMP firm will have a more consistent success than others in freezing all interest for the duration of the DMP.

I was with CCCs and all interest was frozen.The OFT report I agree should not tarnish the entire private DMP service.

CCC actually gets a cut from the Banks for the debt payments they retrieve and so in a way they are 'not really' a free DMP service. It's as if the Banks have created a public subsidary to arrange and a greed on debt payment schedules with the 'assurances' of a free independent charity behind debtors and a phone call away. CCCS is free to debtors but payed for by banks....like how IVA fees operate infact?
Now,on that note...is an IVA really free?
Last edited by nomoremoney on Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 76941
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:52 pm
I don't think anyone has said that an IVA is 'free'. We all know that we have to pay fees for a firm to set it up and administer it for the duration.

I have no problem with that and am quite happy with the fees I am paying.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

nomoremoney

User avatar
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:11 pm
Location:

Post by nomoremoney » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:09 pm
Kallis, you say 'we have to pay fees for a firm to .....administer IVA"
But we do not infact. What we pay towards the IVA is what we can afford as decided by the IP and the fees don't make that chunk any larger.

We are not[technically]paying IPS fees..the Banks are.
Last edited by nomoremoney on Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

Andrew Graveson

User avatar
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:52 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Andrew Graveson » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:36 pm
Hello nomoremoney,

If an IVA company suggested on their website that an IVA was free to the person taking it out, the OFT would come down on them very quickly.

This is one of the types of issue that has caused so many companies to receive OFT notices today.

On the subject of "freezing interest" I would comment that maintaining such agreements on behalf of a client requires the debt management plan operator ("free" or commercial) to be proactive and also respond quickly to events and changes.

I'm absolutely sure therefore that there are huge differences between debt management operations in terms of who achieves the best results on behalf of their clients. No-one can say for sure of course, because virtually none of us publish this information.

I don't think that this is a case where the "free" versus commercial argument is useful. The comparison is really between good and bad debt management operators. There are plenty of both.
Andrew Graveson
Bright Oak Ltd
UK Debt Management Company
Website: www.brightoak.co.uk
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 76941
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:54 pm
Well said Andrew.

Nomoremoney, I know that the fees come out of my monthly payment, but I am quite happy with that knowing that someone is looking after both mine and the creditors affairs.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

Gettingthere

User avatar
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Gettingthere » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:19 pm
As Kallis has said, I know that a fee is being charged from what I pay per month, and for the peace of mind it provides me knowing that I have money to pay for bills etc... and money to pay back my creditors, I am eternally thankful.
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:38 am
This report has been long awaited for and I sincerely hope it is the start of sorting the men out from the boys. I would love to see those reported named and shamed, and I very much hope that none of them are members of DEMSA or the DRF. The sooner that we have a properly recognised and unified trade association for DMP companies to seek guidance from and to regulate the DMP industry the better. My inbox continues to be filled with tales from poor souls who to be frank have been ripped off.

As someone said to me the other day "At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!". And as we had in the IP profession a few years agao, very reputable firms are being tarred with the same brush as those who are simply in it for a quick sale.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

lukeofyorkshire

User avatar
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by lukeofyorkshire » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:17 am
I too am eager to see them named and shamed. Though I think we will only find out who some of them are when their licences are withdrawn (As I'm sure some of them will fail to improve).
1st payment Oct 2008, last payment Dec 2013. Certificate received March 2015 due to PPI claim.
 
 

Broke of London

User avatar
Posts: 7761
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Broke of London » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:23 am
I don't mind paying fees. I would expect to pay fees for any professional service. What I do feel strongly about is the lack of standardisation. For example, why can one ip allow a 6 month payment break for redundancy and another will only allow two. Why will one ip allow HP expenses and another not. I sometimes think that some ips forget the payments are meant to be affordable. I am also unhappy that some ips apparently take on so many cases they are unable to give them their personal attention and the running of an iva is left solely in the hands of unlicensed staff.
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 76941
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:07 am
Some of it is all down to when the IVA was taken out. There are still those running that are pre-protocol, mine is the 2008 protocol and there is a new one this year so everything changes. I have nothing about redundancy in my IVA at all.

However, as regards the DMP companies, I think it is about time the cowboys were got rid of and I do think they should be named and shamed.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

Andrew Graveson

User avatar
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:52 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Andrew Graveson » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:19 am
Just to reinforce something I mentioned earlier; this investigation and action isn't just about debt management companies.

The OFT were looking at companies that provide IVA's as well within the scope of this investigation. They see this as being one market, rather than it being two separate markets as you might sometimes think when reading this forum.

One of the questions on the mystery phone shopping related specifically to IVA's. The results weren't very impressive.
Andrew Graveson
Bright Oak Ltd
UK Debt Management Company
Website: www.brightoak.co.uk
 
 

lukeofyorkshire

User avatar
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by lukeofyorkshire » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:22 am
There could be a few well known firms on the list I expect. But it depends on how many mystery shops they did for that firm, all you need is one duff member of staff....and having worked in a major insurers claims office I know it's only too possible for one person to let the whole office down.
1st payment Oct 2008, last payment Dec 2013. Certificate received March 2015 due to PPI claim.
 
 

Andrew Graveson

User avatar
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:52 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Andrew Graveson » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:38 am
That's a good point lukeofyorkshire.

The phone shopping was contracted out to a professional company and done very well. I have personal experience of this... I took one of the calls myself (hopefully I wasn't the office duffer!).

It only formed one part of the investigation though.

In addition to this we had visits to our premises by the OFT (or representatives of the OFT) to go through a wide-ranging variety of important areas.

A review of advertising/marketing was also carried out with a massive sweep of hundreds of "debt help" websites.

As such I don't think it's likely that any company that has received an OFT notice will have done so on the basis of one poorly handled phone call.
Andrew Graveson
Bright Oak Ltd
UK Debt Management Company
Website: www.brightoak.co.uk
 
 

lukeofyorkshire

User avatar
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by lukeofyorkshire » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:43 am
That is good to hear Andrew, because it is not fair to hang a firm out to dry on the basis one piece of evidence. Caating the net wider over all the activities gives the correct picture of how the business is operated.
1st payment Oct 2008, last payment Dec 2013. Certificate received March 2015 due to PPI claim.
 
 

Michael Peoples

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 15189
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:36 pm
Location:

Post by Michael Peoples » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:43 am
I wonder if any of the firms in the 'free' or 'charity' sector were checked and mystery shopped. I have seen some shocking advice given by these companies and also some local advice centres.

I have seen people lose their homes and businesses because of what they have been advised by local advice centres and only yesterday I spoke to a new client whose business is in dire trouble and he faces bankruptcy by HMRC. He was afraid to contact any company for advice due to the OFT report but luckily he did. The only people who can propose IVAs are licensed insolvency practitioners and where someone is facing bankruptcy an IVA may well be the only option.

I think it is wrong for this report to effectively damn the entire insolvency and debt management business and the repurcussions for people in trouble could be severe.
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
http://www.mccambridgeduffy.com
If you would like to talk to me about proposing an IVA or have any questions at all please visit www.mccambridgeduffy.com
74 posts Page 2 of 5
Return to “Ask IVA Forum and Industry experts”