F&F offer or write-off

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den162

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Post by den162 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:41 pm
I am 21 months into my 5 year IVA, I pay £600 per month, I'm being made redundant at age 63 years so unlikely to get another job, my redundancy pay will be £11,500 (15 weeks pay), I want to know what would be a reasonable F&F offer, or could I ask for the debt to be written of?

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:55 pm
Hi, you won't be able to write your debt off . you can let your IVA fail but you will owe everything plus interest owed.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
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Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:53 pm
Have a read of your proposal clauses regarding redundancy. Assuming you have the usual clauses you will be entitled to retain up to the equivalent of 6 months salary, from which to live and to continue paying the IVA. Anything over this is payable into the IVA. So, in your case, £11.5k being 15 weeks salary, you should keep all of it.

Over the rest of the IVA your creditors are expecting in the region of another £23,400 in regular payments. I would have thought that a reasonable offer, in normal circumstances would be in the region of at least £20k.

However, in the light of the possibility of the IVA failing in the near future, they may be ameniable to a smaller offer. It is up to you to decide what you feel you are willing to offer. If it were me and I had some sort of post redundancy income to live on I would go in at £10k.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
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den162

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Post by den162 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:33 pm
That's good advice, thanks guys, I thought it worth asking about writing the debt off but I'm not surprised to hear otherwise.
The likelihood of me finding another job given my age and medical condition is very low so, I would probably make an offer of 8 to 10k.
The 6 month clause is in my agreement so I'd keep it all.
So let's say my supervisor said I have to carry on paying for 3 months (the 15 weeks) and the offer is declined, then after that the IVA fails and it all goes pearshaped, wouldn't they rather accept the offer and get something out of it than get nothing? are they usually pragmatic in these circumstances?

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Post by Foggy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:51 pm
In the lap of the gods really --- my situation changed mid way through my 5 year IVA and I could no longer pay anything in .... I proposed a full and final based on payments made to date ( basically calling it quits) and they agreed !! Mind you, due to extra income I had alreday hit the originally estimated dividend, so the creditors had already got what they had signed up for. But these things can happen.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

den162

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Post by den162 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:28 pm
Another question, being 63 years old and being made redundant, I'm told by my pension people that I will have to draw my pension on my last day of employment, If I take a tax free lump sum from that pension is that considered to be an unexpected windfall therefore go to the IVA?

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Post by Foggy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:31 pm
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:28 pmden162 wrote:
Another question, being 63 years old and being made redundant, I'm told by my pension people that I will have to draw my pension on my last day of employment, If I take a tax free lump sum from that pension is that considered to be an unexpected windfall therefore go to the IVA?
Generally, yes, unless 'pensions and proceeds' have been specifically excluded from the arrangement.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

Lisa Thomas

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Post by Lisa Thomas » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:22 am
You should take specialist advice but it might be an idea to consider offering to take the pension lump sum and use it as part of a F&F offer to conclude the IVA early. If creditors reject the variation then don't draw down the pension.
I'm a licensed IP with 16+ yrs at Neville & Co covering the South West area. I have a YouTube channel with advisory videos on here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMPTTu ... Z5k9ZcC2MA http://www.nevilleco.co.uk 01752 786800 Lisa@nevilleco.co.uk

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:28 am
It sounds as though he has to draw down his pension.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk

den162

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Post by den162 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:47 am
Thanks Lisa, that gives food for thought, I don't have a choice to draw the pension but, I guess I do have a choice whether to take a lump sum or not.
I will have £11,500 redundancy pay, if they would accept that as F&F now for example, verbally on the phone or by e-mail, then I take a lump sum in a months time, can they touch it? Or am I only safe once I have a certificate?
I am really at a loss to what would be a reasonable offer to make, who thinks that they would most likely accept 11k?

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Post by Foggy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:56 am
They will not accept a F&F offer verbally -- it has to be put to creditors in a variation meeting and formally accepted. Even then, you are still in the iVA and subject to it until you get the completion certificate. What they might or might not be able to grab between the payment of the lump sum and the issue of the certificate will depend, to some extent, on the wording of your offer. Most "Full and Finals" are neither full nor final... but just a moratorium on regular payments until the IVA is closed formally. You could add in conditions, say, excluding the pension proceeds ... but such actions will serve to put doubt in the creditors minds as to what they might be missing out on.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

den162

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Post by den162 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:18 am
Thanks Foggy, that's kind of what I expected, I think as Lisa said, I should get specialist advice, does anyone know of a good advisor on this subject, I live in Chelmsford, Essex

den162

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Post by den162 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:05 pm
But surely I would kind of have the upper hand, as in, if they don't accept 11k for example, I will not take a lump sum from my pension so they won't get any of that, and they will not be able to have any of the redundancy because it's much less than 6 months pay, what would/could they do in this situation? I'm not going to work again..!!
I understand that it's my debt but if I do it wrong I could end up with nothing

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:35 pm
I cannot give specific advice, but, if I were in your shoes I would be inclined to leave the pension lump sum alone ( which, in the long run, will give you a better regular pension income and, depending on longevity, might work out better). Go to the creditors with an offer of, say £10k from the redundancy compensation ---- and hope that you can then survive on benefits / pension until state pension kicks in. Of course this all depends on the relative figures as to whether it is an option.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

den162

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Post by den162 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:48 pm
I can take a lup sum of around 26k, if I don't take it my pension would be £100 per month more. I will get advice but I think my plan would be to offer the 10k with a stipulation that they can't touch any lump sum, if they decline then I keep the 10k and take no lump sum, but they get nothing.
I don't get how you would come out of it with nothing
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