Fiancé going through IVA and forcing me to sign responsibility for part of debt

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jessica627
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by jessica627 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:35 am
My fiancé is going through IVA and forcing me to sign to be responsible for part of his debt, without any prior consultation with a solicitor or a proof that this debt was repaid(so he says). We have a child together and have been living together for 3 years. I am a full time student and mommy and don’t have any income apart from benefits. Am I legally allowed to become his creditor and sign the document that I accept full liability (including future liability) for part of his debt? Would related people/close family members be allowed to vote in IVA?
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kallis3
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by kallis3 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:44 am
You are not responsible for any of his debt. Was any of it joint?
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:46 am
He cannot shift responsibility for debt in his name on to you --- and you say he says the debt was repaid ... if so there is nothing to take responsibility for.
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jessica627
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by jessica627 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:08 pm
kallis3 wrote:
You are not responsible for any of his debt. Was any of it joint?

No all his debt was acquired in his marriage with his ex, which 10 years ago. The reason he is going through Iva is debt for numerous properties in negative equity, both in his and his ex wife’s names. The document he wants me to sign is to take a liability for his debt to a company for non completion of property sale. which again was 10 years ago and they are only chasing him now. The company asked him to repay 200 k for non completion and he negotiated with the company that he has no such money and made a document with his sister in law as if she will take over his debt and as if she will pay 110 k to that company to close the case. Partner says his sister in law transferred the funds to the company and the case is closed, however she is not willing to take part in IVA and vote yes as one of his creditors. The document partner insists to sign is agreement between myself and his sister in law that I take over debt of my partner from her and take a full liability of this debt in future. He insists I don’t contact solicitor and I don’t even have any evidence that the debt was repaid or if the case was closed. I wouldn’t want the company to chase me in future for non completion of property my partner was involved with his ex.. now he blames me for his possibility to go bankrupt. I truly believe his and his ex wife’s debt has nothing to do with me. I would be happy to hear that I am not even in a position legally to be involved in this...
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kallis3
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by kallis3 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 pm
You do not need to do anything - none of this is your problem and you should not be forced into anything. I think you need to speak to a solicitor.
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:44 pm
Anything you sign would be null and void if you ended up taking it to court .... he has denied you legal advice and is bullying you into signing a, frankly, fraudulent or, at best, shonky, document. He cannot blame you in any way for his past financial mess. What it seems he is trtying to do is to get you as a creditor, in place of his sister, so you vote yes ... unfortunately the other creditors will see through this and, in any case, as an associated creditor your votes will be ignored or reduced and the creditors might also vote that the dividend you would have got goes to them instead. He is heading for a fall by trying to maniplulate matters and will be the author of his own misfortune when it all goes pear shaped.
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kallis3
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by kallis3 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:55 pm
Definitely don't sign anything which is going to affect you. Seek legal advice regardless of what he says.
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jessica627
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by jessica627 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:10 pm
Foggy wrote:
Anything you sign would be null and void if you ended up taking it to court .... he has denied you legal advice and is bullying you into signing a, frankly, fraudulent or, at best, shonky, document. He cannot blame you in any way for his past financial mess. What it seems he is trtying to do is to get you as a creditor, in place of his sister, so you vote yes ... unfortunately the other creditors will see through this and, in any case, as an associated creditor your votes will be ignored or reduced and the creditors might also vote that the dividend you would have got goes to them instead. He is heading for a fall by trying to maniplulate matters and will be the author of his own misfortune when it all goes pear shaped.


"unfortunately the other creditors will see through this and, in any case, as an associated creditor your votes will be ignored or reduced and the creditors might also vote that the dividend you would have got goes to them instead. "
could you please explain what is meant by an associated creditor and how this manipulation could be revealed? I am trying to explain him that it is better to make things right and there is no need to involve me in any debt he got in the past. If i would attend the meeting to vote for IVA would noone be suspicious of a 25 yo student and full time mummy with no income acting as a creditor? Would noone care that he is my fiance and we have a child together and been living together for 3 years?
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:37 pm
The IP will need to see and understand any paperwork associated with the debt --- so will need details of the original debt and the documents signed by his sister and then by you. I doubt the IP would be happy with that. Manipulation could be revealed by the completely unorthodox situation --- people do not / cannot simply shift the responsibility for debt around. The original debt was a contract between the lender and your partner. Only the lender can move the debt on, not the borrower.

As the fiancee. co-habitee and mother of the debtors child you will be regarded as an associated creditor. You will not have to attend a physical meeting, but will vote by email or post.

Voting rights for associated creditors are set out here: https://www.purnells.co.uk/Individual-V ... ting-rules
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jessica627
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by jessica627 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:32 pm
Foggy wrote:
The IP will need to see and understand any paperwork associated with the debt --- so will need details of the original debt and the documents signed by his sister and then by you. I doubt the IP would be happy with that. Manipulation could be revealed by the completely unorthodox situation --- people do not / cannot simply shift the responsibility for debt around. The original debt was a contract between the lender and your partner. Only the lender can move the debt on, not the borrower.

As the fiancee. co-habitee and mother of the debtors child you will be regarded as an associated creditor. You will not have to attend a physical meeting, but will vote by email or post.

Voting rights for associated creditors are set out here: https://www.purnells.co.uk/Individual-V ... ting-rules
. Partners IVA agreement doesn’t say that he is engaged, we cohabit and have a child together, i am not sure if his INsolvency practitioner was informed about myself and our child, however his Iva mentions his ex wife and their children. Does it make IVA wrong in the first place? Partner might ask me to change my address but he can’t hide that we are associated through having a child, can he? Are there any checks to see if creditors are associated with the debtor?
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:15 pm
jessica627 wrote:
Foggy wrote:
The IP will need to see and understand any paperwork associated with the debt --- so will need details of the original debt and the documents signed by his sister and then by you. I doubt the IP would be happy with that. Manipulation could be revealed by the completely unorthodox situation --- people do not / cannot simply shift the responsibility for debt around. The original debt was a contract between the lender and your partner. Only the lender can move the debt on, not the borrower.

As the fiancee. co-habitee and mother of the debtors child you will be regarded as an associated creditor. You will not have to attend a physical meeting, but will vote by email or post.

Voting rights for associated creditors are set out here: https://www.purnells.co.uk/Individual-V ... ting-rules
. Partners IVA agreement doesn’t say that he is engaged, we cohabit and have a child together, i am not sure if his INsolvency practitioner was informed about myself and our child, however his Iva mentions his ex wife and their children. Does it make IVA wrong in the first place? Partner might ask me to change my address but he can’t hide that we are associated through having a child, can he? Are there any checks to see if creditors are associated with the debtor?


There are ways and means, but I doubt the IP would employ any of them. If you have any joint finances they will show up on a credit check. He / she would still have to be satisfied by the rather dodgy arrangements with the loan and, to be honest, if I were an IP being presented with this I wouldn't want to know. Bottom line, if this comes out of the woodwork ( and these things often do) is that the IVA could be failed and there is a possibility of adding a fraud charge to his problems.
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luluj
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by luluj » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:11 am
As others hsve said this is not your responsibility and you should not agree or sign to anything.

I am struggling a little with how a fiancè can ask someone who clearly has nothing to do with things to sign "their life away" - this must be adding undue pressure to your relationship too.

Stay firm and do not sign anything without legal advice.
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