Found That Credit Agreements Unenforceable After B

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plasticdaft
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by plasticdaft » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:08 am
Sorry to rock the boat but surely morals are an individual thing?

I feel no obligation to pay back every penny even though I borrowed the money,mostly from LloydsTSB. For 15 years I banked with them and for 15 years I was paying interest on loans and credit cards. I paid back in interest more than 3 times the amount I ever borrowed and when I knew I was in trouble they threw more money at me rather than sitting me down to offer debt advice.
A loophole in the law exists and hundreds of companies are offering people the chance to write off lots of debts. Many of these companies are spoken of in the same way that IVA/DMP firms were spoken of not that long ago.

While it is fair to say that the forum doesnt condone the action of someone avoiding debts pm.e doesnt seem to have looked at this lightly and tried to do the right thing to start with.

Pm.e I would leave it as it is but thats just my opinion. If you think you will get some satisfaction from attempting to have the debts that are written off made unenfprcebale(while lining someone elses pcokets remember!!),then go for it.

Paul

 

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johnh
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by johnh » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:26 pm
As far as I know, Mrs Wilson, quoted above, is the ONLY person to have her debts written off under this "loophole" In her case, she pawned her BMW and then found that the pawnbroker had added administration charges not included in the Agreement. The noble Law Lords deemed that this blatant breach of the Consumer Credit Act rendered the Agreement unenforceable and Mrs Wilson got her BMW back and her £6,900 pledge. It is not at all proven that the Law Lords thus gave carte blanche to render any debts unenforceable for any minor breach of the CC Act, as claimed in the adverts.
I know 2 rather greedy, but not at all needy people who paid £400 per credit card to a dodgy law firm in Manchester long before the adverts appeared all over the place. They never got their debts written off, never got their money back and the company disappeared overnight. I suspect this will be the fate of others taken in by these fly-by-night outfits.

 

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Skippy
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by Skippy » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:53 pm
Personally I think it serves them right John, especially if they weren't struggling. I can remember a Panarama programme last year where a couple had set up a company to help people avoid their debts as they had done it themselves. I don't know the final outcome, but at the time of the programme I think they were in dire straits as they had court costs equal to the amount that had been written off!

 

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pm.e
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by pm.e » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:41 pm
Im not saying to pay all these dodgey companies, just research the facts and use this knowledge against them. Do all the hard work yourself, and reap the rewards.

There are laws in place in the UK to protect us.

Are all the morally correct people suggesting that we ignore these laws and pay back the money EVEN if they are not entitled to it?????

 

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plasticdaft
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by plasticdaft » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:50 pm
pm.e wrote:


Im not saying to pay all these dodgey companies, just research the facts and use this knowledge against them. Do all the hard work yourself, and reap the rewards.

There are laws in place in the UK to protect us.

Are all the morally correct people suggesting that we ignore these laws and pay back the money EVEN if they are not entitled to it?????

If the money was borrowed with the intention of paying it back,then why argue that companies are not entitled to it because of,for example a missed tick in a box or a signature thats in the wrong place?

 

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Skippy
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by Skippy » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:52 pm
But surely most people borrowed the money with the intent repay it, and therefore failing to do so due to a technicality makes them no better than the banks who (maybe irresponsibly) lent the money in the first place?

 

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pm.e
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by pm.e » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:00 pm
Hang on a minute!

What about an IVA and Banruptcy.

You are not paying back all what you owe under these circumstances so what is the difference???

Thinking of the moral issue, then on that basis, we should all be made to pay back in full the debt we owe without protection of the legal system.

It is the SAME LEGAL SYSTEM THAT WE USE TO WRITE OFF THE DEBT.

Cannot agree or understand where you are coming from???

any thoughts?

 

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Skippy
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by Skippy » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:11 pm
Being bankrupt is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life and could cause me problems for years to come. I don't regret doing it as I had no other option, but I'm glad I did that and didn't try and get away scot free.

 

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plasticdaft
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by plasticdaft » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:14 pm
What you have to remember pm.e is that its all about opinions. You have 1st hand experience of creditors forcing BR when they would have got more out of an IVA,and that has allowed you to see that side of things. But look also at the posters who have completed 5 years of an IVA and feel that they have achieved something,including some harsh lessons on budgeting. They will argue till blue in the face that they have paid back what they could afford in a reasonable timeframe.

Personally my debts would take me 13 years and 8 months to repay if all interest was frozen,but I feel in no way obliged to pay back more than I can afford,but I wouldnt start to go through paperwork trying to find a misplaced X to escape from the debts.

Paul

 

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pm.e
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by pm.e » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:49 pm
I am saying the same thing, although using a different part of the law system to right off debt.

 

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plasticdaft
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by plasticdaft » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:16 pm
The argument is that the CCA 1974 wasnt put in place to be used to avoid paying back money owed.

 

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pm.e
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by pm.e » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:01 pm
but IVA's and BR are also to protect people!!!! - SAME THING!

Consumer Credit Act 1974
This gives people who enter into credit agreements protection in the following ways. As long as the credit was not more than £25,000.

a) If you have signed a credit agreement and you want to cancel it you can do so within a certain period of time as long as you did not make the deal over the phone and you did not sign the agreement at the seller's shop, office or workplace, (this can include an exhibition stand). Therefore if you signed the agreement in your own home you will be able to cancel after you have signed the agreement.

The seller is supposed to send you a written notice telling you how you can cancel and how long you have to cancel. You must cancel by writing to the address given on the notice. You will be entitled to the return of any deposit paid or goods traded in part-exchange if you cancel the agreement in time.

b) A creditor, (the one who provides credit) cannot demand early payment, try to get the goods back or end the agreement without first serving a written notice on you giving you 7 days notice of their intention to take such action, (Default Notice).

The notice has to be written in a particular way. If you receive a notice you should get legal advice to check that it is a proper notice.

The notice should contain the following;


The notice should say how much should be paid to bring payments up to date.

When payments should be made.

What will happen if payments are not made.

How the agreement can be brought to an end and that if payments are made the agreement will not be brought to an end.

c) If you have paid a third of the total price of the goods under a HP agreement then the creditor cannot take the goods back without first getting a court order. Even if they apply for a court order you can ask the court to suspend the "Return Order" and accept your offer to pay the outstanding amounts by instalments.

If you agree that they can have the goods back they will not need a court order. If you do not agree and the creditor has not got a court order, but takes the goods back anyway you can sue the creditor and claim back all the money you have paid under the agreement. The creditor cannot enter your premises to repossess the goods without your permission or without a court order.

d) If a credit agreement is unfair then you can apply to the court and ask them to look at the agreement and put in place a new agreement or alter the old one. However, the court will only do this if it can be shown that the agreement is "extortionate".

To decide this the court will look at such things as your age, experience, "business knowledge", state of health and the amount of financial pressure put on you when you entered the deal.

The court also considers the creditor's position, such as the level of risk accepted by the creditor, including the value of any security, the creditor's relationship to you, whether the creditor deliberately inflated the cash price to make the credit charges seem reasonable.

The court can also consider any other relevant matters.

e) A seller can be the person who grants you credit or they may arrange for you to get credit from a 3rd party or that 3rd party may arrange to supply the goods to you. Your protection is that you can choose who to sue.

You can either sue the seller or the provider of the credit or both. This helps you because if the seller goes bust you can try and get your money from the credit provider instead.

f) You must be given certain written information about the credit agreement which must include;

i) The total charge for credit.

ii) The Annual Percentage Rate (APR).

iii) The cash price for the goods.

Not all credit agreements have the above protection.
For example, credit agreements involving Limited Companies, Public Companies, Building Societies, Local Authorities, Insurance Companies, Friendly Societies, Charities, Housing and Land Companies or Institutions do not have the same protection.

If you are in doubt as to whether the credit agreement you have entered into has protection under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 you should seek legal advice.

You are entitled to a copy of the Agreement to keep. If a credit agreement is broken the court can decide to either;

i) Make a time order giving the borrower extra time to pay.

ii) Make an order that the borrower must return the goods to the creditor.

iii) Make a transfer order allowing the borrower to keep part of the goods, but return the other part.
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