Help For A Creditor

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moocow

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Post by moocow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:09 pm
Hello all,

I know most of these sites are aimed at debtors and advice for them.

Would you consider helping a creditor like me with advice or is that not allowed on here?

I made a stupid loan arrangement with a local business man which has gone completely wrong. The whole intention of me making this arrangement was that there would be a monthly return so I could save enough finance to buy a bungalow for my Mom and I.

To cut a long story short, the said businessman has no intention of giving me back my original loan and has applied for an IVA.

Can I ask some questions on here?

Thanks.

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:22 pm
Our experience is mostly from the perspective of the debtor, but we will happily answer your questions, if we are able.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:35 pm
I agree with Foggy - can you give us some more information please.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk

moocow

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Post by moocow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:47 pm
Thanks for your reply Foggy.

1) The debtor says in the IVA paperwork that he supposedly owes someone in South Africa £100K, would the IP ask for proof of this and check this or do they just go with what the debtor is saying?

2) A lot of the information in the paperwork is incorrect. It says he is living with his wife and x amount of kids. In reality, he lives with his girlfriend and has 2 kids with her which is a completely different address to the one he has given (the address is for his first/ex wife). I have proof of the other address as a colleague's sister lives in the same street and the debtor is in that house every day. Also, when I used HCEO's to visit him, I only had his old address (first/ex wife) and he was never in. At that point, I was not aware he lived elsewhere otherwise I would have given them that address also.

3) Can someone who proposes an IVA demand that they must whizz around in a £35K+ BMW or should they be made to hire a car which will get them from A to B without being super fancy?

4) On the paperwork, it says the agreement with me fell through. In reality, the property he purchased with the money I loaned to him was sold (at a profit). He returned 1/4 of the initial loan to me, the remainder was handed over to another debtor who had supposedly placed a charge on that property. How would that work? I thought you had to know someone's address to check the LR and put a a charge on it. The property that was purchased was in a completely different county. How would someone know about this or is it just poppycock and he used the money for another reason?

5) If the LR says the property is owned in joint names, could that mean he still has a mortgage?

6) He has 3 companies in his own name, he is the director for each one. 2 of the companies are in the red, 1 is in black by about £300K but he states it is a charitable organisation. When I spoke to a solicitor before I put a charge on his property, he said money might be siphoned from company to another. Could this be true or was he just telling me what I wanted to here?

Apologies if I sound mental but it is a lot of money I will end up losing out. If the debtor was genuine, I would go along with it but there have been so many lies over the years. I'll be damned if he gets away with it, which I know he probably will!

PS. I could go on and on and on with other details of what happened and when but I don't want to bore you all to death.

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:12 pm
1) The IP should get this creditor to verify their claim but, this isn't always at the start of an IVA.
2) Challenge the information with the IP.
3) The creditors normally expect you to retain a modest vehicle --- an expensive one should be sold, pay for a modest one and pay the balance to the IVA.
4) Land registry charges only need the address of the property that charge is against.
5) Ownership in joint names means there is another person on the deeds --- this has nothing to do with mortgages --- a mortgagor is not on the ownership register, but holds a secured charge.
6) Money could be moved from one company to another -- whether legally or morally correct is another matter.

You need to have a chat with the IP (who is it by the way?) . Might I ask how much the debtor owes you ? If it is over 25% of the whole debt you could vote the whole arrangement down.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

moocow

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Post by moocow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:22 pm
Thanks Foggy. It's BHP corporate solutions.

The amount he owes me including interest is £33K.

The amount of total debt he says he has is about £250K, £75K+ of which is to banks and credit cards etc, who will most likely say yes to the IVA as they have funds to set off bad debts I presume.

I've just had a look at the paperwork again, he supposedly owes £25K to family members and associates who will not be part of the IVA and he will sort the debts out with them later which to me means they will get all their money and will not be shafted.

I did apply for a final charging order and the judge was going to look through it on 07/12/2018. What are the chances of him making it a final order when he has all these other creditors?

PS. He owes all this money to all these other people but on the IVA paperwork it states that I am the only one who has a CCJ or a charge on his property against him. I would have thought some of the other creditors especially the banks he owes so much to would have applied by now?

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:47 pm
He can't sort out unsecured debts outside the IVA.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk

moocow

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Post by moocow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:49 pm
What does that mean KALLIS?

Also, is there any point in me going to a solicitor or is this IVA thing the final thing and all is lost now?

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:12 pm
When you say that you have a charge on the property, what do you mean? Is the loan secured against the property ? If so it cannot be rolled into the IVA.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:17 pm
Apologies if I got this wrong.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk

moocow

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Post by moocow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:29 pm
Foggy wrote:
When you say that you have a charge on the property, what do you mean? Is the loan secured against the property ? If so it cannot be rolled into the IVA.
I have an interim charging order on the property he owns with his wife. It has not been made final however.

The judge was due to look at the paperwork this week and make a decision as to whether it could be made final or not.

So at the moment, the loan is NOT finally charged against the property.

MerlinL14

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Post by MerlinL14 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:31 pm
If he is being allowed to 'with hold' family debts until the IVA is complete then you need to make a formal complaint as he should never be allowed to have preferential agreements in place just because they are family. From your explanation seems he is trying to shaft everyone in preference to his family members!
Last Payment made 04/12/14. Completion Certificate 25/7/15. IVA company GT. No Issues

moocow

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Post by moocow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:52 pm
So this is what it says - the debtor has the following associated creditors, who are friends and family of the debtor, who will waive their right to a dividend in the IVA should the proposal be approved and they will defer any claims they have until after the successful completion of the IVA.

The list includes his brother and sister who work with him. The brother was there when the initial agreement was signed. Also his sister used to work at the CAB so no doubt she has given him all the tips to get out of this with as much money as possible.

The associated creditors make up roughly 15% of the total debt.

They all work together now and he is the director of the company. To say he earns about £1500 a month from a very successful property lettings agency is beyond a joke. I wonder if all the other money gets put into his brother and sisters monthly pay packet.

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:36 pm
MerlinL14 wrote:
If he is being allowed to 'with hold' family debts until the IVA is complete then you need to make a formal complaint as he should never be allowed to have preferential agreements in place just because they are family. From your explanation seems he is trying to shaft everyone in preference to his family members!
It is common practice to ask associated creditors to "step aside" --- what he does with his money post IVA completion is up to him and of no concern to the IP.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
http://foggy.blogs.iva.co.uk

Lisa Thomas

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Post by Lisa Thomas » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:56 am
moocow wrote:
Foggy wrote:
When you say that you have a charge on the property, what do you mean? Is the loan secured against the property ? If so it cannot be rolled into the IVA.
I have an interim charging order on the property he owns with his wife. It has not been made final however.

The judge was due to look at the paperwork this week and make a decision as to whether it could be made final or not.

So at the moment, the loan is NOT finally charged against the property.
Hopefully you get the final charging order asap so that you have security for your debt.
I'm a licensed IP with 16+ yrs at Neville & Co covering the South West area. I have a YouTube channel with advisory videos on here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMPTTu ... Z5k9ZcC2MA http://www.nevilleco.co.uk 01752 786800 Lisa@nevilleco.co.uk
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