overpayment of salary nhs want it back

[molly16]

bit of a long post here , bit in a nutshell in 2004 agenda for change was agreed with nhs and government. pay details were to change in 2008 as the loss of night enhancement on weekends , where as you used to get night pay and sat/sun enhancement . back in 2008 my husband was overpaid by the trust he works for by a whole year, payroll knew about this and let it go . It now transpires that the nhs trust want the money back .... he along with his colleagues were over paid £3500 in that period , he is weekly paid so it was 52 payments. his salary ws up 40/50 a week . obviously when ppayslips went to insolvency team additionl money was paid into iva. now the trust are sending the heavy weights in to say they have to pay that over payment back in 12 months . well we are insolvet , if they do that we wil loose our house . the trust knowingly put this workes in debt thru no fault of their own . can my husband offer a token payment ? the trust are saying pay it back in 12 months or we will take you to court , like my husband says take me to court cas i still havet got it too pay back !!! plus the courts know we are insolvent . hope this makes sense and does anyone hav any ideas .???

[Struzzo39]

Sounds about right for the NHS!!! I work for them too. I'm sure one of the professionals will be on here shortly to advice x

[molly16]

its the heads of payroll , hr and others in tonight ... bth me and huby worked for nhs for long long time , and apart from annual leave i cant find any positives for them

[Julie]

Hi Molly,

What a dreadful position to be in..

Did your hubby realise he was being overpaid?

[molly16]

yes and payroll were told , it was then agreed it was their error , end of so they were fully aware !! shameful that it wasnt one payment but 52 !!!. then shameful that national guidelines were not followed , but the lads were told our error ,it will be written off, but when the budgets done tend of year it shows a deficit of £133k in that department and they want it back or heads will roll . would be ok if my husband had a great job but he doesnt , hes one of the lowest paid in the nhs !!! would have been ok if had gone in our pockets it all went back to the iva company

[molly16]

i mean can he offer token payment or go to court as it was not a case of getting credit , payroll knew , and we are insolvent we have nothing to give back !

[Leese]

Hi Molly,

Was anything put in writing? Are payroll STILL admitting that they knew of the error?

[molly16]

yes they are , nothing in writing .

[Julie]

If he knew he was being wrongly paid then has an obligation to alert his employer immediately.

Without knowing the full facts, there appears to be fault on both sides,but an agreement to repay should be quite easy to reach.

[molly16]

yep nhs were aware but continued to pay , unfortuanately payrol did not follow the national agenda for change guidelines which they knew changes were going to take place. they have been told it has to be paid over 12 months meaning a deficit of £291 a month which is not feasible for us . he has a one to one meeting tonight , have told him he needs to tell them he is insolvent , and offer repayment at £20 per week til paid back , at least is shows willing and im sure we could take that out of our shopping !! it now becomes a welfare issue as senior management have a duty of care to employers health safety and wellbeing , the fact they did not correct error despite knowing about it has put a lot of people in finiacial dificulty ( again for us ) thought my debts days were over . its a nightmare

[Julie]

I hope your hubby can reach an agreeable solution with his employer.

I agree there is a duty of care, but this does extend to the employee too. If an employee knowingly accepts incorrect payments then they have have an obligation to alert and repay monies overpaid.

We're all human and errors will be made, its how we deal with them [;)]

[molly16]

problem is u cant refund ur bacs salary from ur bank account on your < JUST INFRUIRATED That they knew !! and still continued to pay wrong , its knowing the legalities , have told hubby that on his individual meeting , tell them we r isolvent , they can check the regiser . offer token payment weekly til paid back . if they took him to court and he could prove hardship he has good grounds esp if they wont negotiate repayment . he did make me laugh thou , he said the nhs can get to the back of the queue as there are about 20 other creditors in front of them and for larger sums ! watch this space

[Leese]

I'm going to see what I can find out at work for you tomorrow. If you are saying that your husband told them and they still continued to pay at that rate then it can't be right that he has to pay it back. Quick question..how many payments did he receive before he made them aware and then how many after?

[molly16]

they payments went for a year . he is wekly paid , they were made aware after first few weeks . he works a rolling rota and u recieved sat night enhancement and sun enhance plus night allow . under agenda for change employers could nt pay u night allow and the sat / sun enhancement. the trust continued to pay both allowances . his salary will vary week to eek depending on the nights he has worked . they made at least 42 further over payments following being aware . this was national policy !!! they knew about the enhancement pay in 2005 and knew it was to start 2008 !!! as the lads are low paid workers(unskilled skivvys ) they took out a grievance trying to protect their enhancements so it wasnt if nobody knew anything . they were then told the salaries would be left if they dropped grievance . unions were involved , so up til 2 nights ago we thought it was sorted . there has been no dishonesty on employees side, they made management aware . then will they recalculate tax ni and pension contributions paid at the higher salary ??? like i say i wouldnt mind but we send everything to iva company and hand over any extra payments

[molly16]

legally i believe he has to pay it back , if they underpaid him hed be screaming for the money, so why should they just let it go , its just the term of 12 months thats scary. we couldnt et a bank loan and pay it back in 12 months for £3.5k.... not that we could get bank loan anyway !!!