Ppi after completion certificate

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Phd
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by Phd » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:20 pm
Just a quick thought, with regards to the Green v White case after being issued with a completion certificate after a full and final settlement it states that there is nothing more to be done under the arrangements. Surely this means if a person was to try and claim ppi back for themselves then indeed it should paid to the debtor. If this isn't the case then the completion certificate and/or accompanying letter should state the fact although the arrangement has ended and is indeed completed there is still things that need concluding ie ppi claims rec.
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:38 pm
A "Full and Final" offer is usually neither full nor final! Thery are usually worded as a moratorium on regular payments, in exchange for the agreed lump sum until such time as matters relating to the IVA have concluded.

The completion certificate states that the IVA has concluded and that the IP has no further interest. The courts determined that PPI refunds, as they actually exist DURING the IVA are still part of said IVA, even after completion. The IP / creditors have no further interest in new matters arising --- PPI refund is not a new matter, but an undealt with old one! The refund is not dealt with under the "closed" IVA but under the trust created by the IVA, which survives completion of the arrangement and which was previously known as a "Gallagher Trust" by virtue of a similar case brought some time ago in respect of bankruptcy proceedings.

Green v. Wright went through several hearings and the appeal process, so wasn't a "cut and dried" case and could be revisited if someone had the will and the funds. Of course, with the deadline for claims looming, the attraction to do this will be fast diminishing.
Phd
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by Phd » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:48 pm
Foggy wrote:
A "Full and Final" offer is usually neither full nor final! Thery are usually worded as a moratorium on regular payments, in exchange for the agreed lump sum until such time as matters relating to the IVA have concluded.

The completion certificate states that the IVA has concluded and that the IP has no further interest. The courts determined that PPI refunds, as they actually exist DURING the IVA are still part of said IVA, even after completion. The IP / creditors have no further interest in new matters arising --- PPI refund is not a new matter, but an undealt with old one! The refund is not dealt with under the "closed" IVA but under the trust created by the IVA, which survives completion of the arrangement and which was previously known as a "Gallagher Trust" by virtue of a similar case brought some time ago in respect of bankruptcy proceedings.

Green v. Wright went through several hearings and the appeal process, so wasn't a "cut and dried" case and could be revisited if someone had the will and the funds. Of course, with the deadline for claims looming, the attraction to do this will be fast diminishing.

With that in mind would it not be the duty of the supervisor of the iva to investigate all avenues of return for creditors during the iva or before the issuing of a completion certificate.
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:07 pm
Phd wrote:
With that in mind would it not be the duty of the supervisor of the iva to investigate all avenues of return for creditors during the iva or before the issuing of a completion certificate.


Most do, but the problem lies with the refunders who persistently refuse valid claims, which are then revisited later on advice from the ombudsman. The alternative, which some IP's tried initially, was to withold completion until satisfied all valid claims had been met -- which experience shows would not be until next August (deadline for claims). Also in many cases, to overcome this potential delay in completion, debtors assigned rights to future PPI claims by formal agreement.
Phd
Posts: 3
by Phd » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:16 pm
Foggy wrote:
Phd wrote:
With that in mind would it not be the duty of the supervisor of the iva to investigate all avenues of return for creditors during the iva or before the issuing of a completion certificate.


Most do, but the problem lies with the refunders who persistently refuse valid claims, which are then revisited later on advice from the ombudsman. The alternative, which some IP's tried initially, was to withold completion until satisfied all valid claims had been met -- which experience shows would not be until next August (deadline for claims). Also in many cases, to overcome this potential delay in completion, debtors assigned rights to future PPI claims by formal agreement.

It seems completion will be a very grey area till August next year.
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:15 pm
Phd wrote:
Foggy wrote:
Phd wrote:
With that in mind would it not be the duty of the supervisor of the iva to investigate all avenues of return for creditors during the iva or before the issuing of a completion certificate.


Most do, but the problem lies with the refunders who persistently refuse valid claims, which are then revisited later on advice from the ombudsman. The alternative, which some IP's tried initially, was to withold completion until satisfied all valid claims had been met -- which experience shows would not be until next August (deadline for claims). Also in many cases, to overcome this potential delay in completion, debtors assigned rights to future PPI claims by formal agreement.

It seems completion will be a very grey area till August next year.



Being ever the (sarcastic) optimist: I am sure something else will come along in time to keep the waters muddy !
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