Green v Wright

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redboxtree
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by redboxtree » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:19 am
What it will mean is that IVA companies will have to be a lot more explicit as this will be common law as there is now a judicial precedent.

The fact that it had to get to this point demonstrates that IVA companies and especially their IP's were making assumptions that were not necessarily correct.

It will also reinforce the legal duties of IP's and create additional work for them - sometimes what you hope for is not really what is best.
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Michael Peoples
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by Michael Peoples » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:30 am
I disagree.

We always treated the PPI as an asset of the IVA and sought to recover that asset for the benefit of creditors. This will not change but at least now we have clarity that what we were doing was correct so will lead to no extra work for us.

The court case has only proven that we were right all along and our 'assumptions' were actually decisions made based on the facts and the law!
redboxtree
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by redboxtree » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:39 am
Michael - for clarity I was talking generically about the industry and not about individual companies.
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Michael Peoples
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by Michael Peoples » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:46 am
Sorry Redboxtree if I came across a little sharply. We have been defending our position for a number of years now since this started and have had the usual 'greedy IP] charges levelled. We are still getting them as many people will be disappointed that they will not be receiving the huge sums of cash lying in IP bank accounts awaiting this decision.

We believed that we had no option other than to seek clarification from the courts and defend the position of creditors. We have been shown to be correct and have achieved clarity where previously it was grey and we can all now move on.
robster
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by robster » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:27 am
If you have had your completion certificate ages does it mean that there are no creditors as it is finished so there are no debtors and can the former debtor keep the PPI if there was no deed of assignment from years ago? - this is how I read it help
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JJSIDE
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by JJSIDE » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:57 am
So what happens now to people in my situation? - My IVA completed successfully in 2009. I applied for all my PPI myself post completion, and all PPI was paid to me after the IP said they were no longer acting on the case. in some cases the money was even returned to the IP by the Banks, but they subsequently said they were no longer acting and paid the money to me.
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:03 am
PPI belongs to the IVA estate "in perpetuity" as it was an asset that existed, albeit unknowingly, during the IVA. As time passes it becomes less economically viable for the IP to dig out old archives, indeed, the files might have been destroyed. In these cases the IP can, and often does, declare that the IVA estate has no interest in the refunds and they are retained by / returned to the debtor.
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JJSIDE
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by JJSIDE » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:15 am
Thanks Foggy - yes, I understand that, but could my IP now turn round and say they got it wrong and the money needs to be returned for distribution to the creditors now retrospectively. In my case I received about 40K in PPI paid to myself. There are many issues with this, some of this money has been spent as I was told that it was mine, some of my claims the Banks offset the PPI against the claim, so technically they are not creditors anymore, what about the Interest that accrued between my IVA being completed and me receiving the money, I persued these claims myself, so would I be justified in charging a fee for doing that work myself, I have paid Income Tax on the Interest portion of the claims....it would open up another huge kettle of fish. I am amazed that we are now 2017, my IVA successfully completed in 2009 and I still don't know if I owe anyone any money - its a ridiculous situation
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Foggy
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by Foggy » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:28 am
JJSIDE wrote:
Thanks Foggy - yes, I understand that, but could my IP now turn round and say they got it wrong and the money needs to be returned for distribution to the creditors now retrospectively. In my case I received about 40K in PPI paid to myself. There are many issues with this, some of this money has been spent as I was told that it was mine, some of my claims the Banks offset the PPI against the claim, so technically they are not creditors anymore, what about the Interest that accrued between my IVA being completed and me receiving the money, I persued these claims myself, so would I be justified in charging a fee for doing that work myself, I have paid Income Tax on the Interest portion of the claims....it would open up another huge kettle of fish. I am amazed that we are now 2017, my IVA successfully completed in 2009 and I still don't know if I owe anyone any money - its a ridiculous situation



I would argue that, as the IP declared no interest in the monies (even better if you have that in writing somewhere) and gave ownership to you, then it is yours. In the unlikely event that a creditor came out of the woodwork and complained, this would be a matter for the IP to resolve, not you.

To be honest, it is a mess all round, created and made worse by the creditors themselves. Should they "kick up" a counter arguement (apart from the fact that they acted unlawfully in the first place) would be that those who retained the refunds to offset also acted illegally in that action too !
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JJSIDE
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by JJSIDE » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:41 am
Thanks Foggy - I will wait and see what happens now if anything. If they want the 40K back then quite frankly I don't have it, they told me it was mine ( I have proof of this in an email from the IP and also the fact they returned 3 claims that were paid to them by the Bank to me personally ) and now over half of it has been spent. I guess if they insisted I need to repay it, I would have to take out another IVA with the IP as the only Creditor - how poetic would that be!
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JJSIDE
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by JJSIDE » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:09 pm
I checked back and I have an email from my IP to the Ombudsman dated 2014 from the IP's 'Insolvency Administrator' - For and on behalf of XXXXX who is the IP' - saying 'The Supervisor has been released on 15.12.2009, therefore he has no claim on JJSIDE's current estate'. I also had 3 phone calls with various members of staff at the IP who all stated that the case was closed and they were no longer acting and that the PPI Compensation was mine to keep. And 3 separate PPI Compensation cheques which had been sent to the IP by the Creditors, were all were returned either to the Creditor or to me.
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kallis3
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by kallis3 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:32 pm
Good news!!
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