a cheque for xmas

[MelanieGiles]

And can I say that I absolutely agree with Ian on his very sensible and fair interpretation.

Merry Christmas Ian, and hope to see you posting on the forum in the New Year.

[ianmillington]

Thank you Melanie, Merry Christmas to you too.

Ian

[David Mond]

Andy, Ian and all,

The definition in the Protocol Compliant IVA of "After acquired assets in the Standard Conditions is shown as follows:

1(f) “after acquired assets” means any asset, windfall or inheritance with a value of more than £500, other than excluded assets that you acquire or receive between the date the arrangement starts and the date it ends or is completed, if this asset could have been an asset of the arrangement had it belonged to or been vested in you at the start of the arrangement;

The Debtors duties are defined in clause 8 and states:

Clause 8(3)If at any time during the arrangement you acquire or are left with “after-acquired assets” as described in paragraph 14, or where your income increases and you have to make contributions out of income, you must as soon as reasonably possible tell the supervisor about the asset or increase in income.

The Clause defining after - acquired assets is as stated by Ian:

14. after-acquired assets

14(1) Subject to the following sub-paragraph, the supervisor may claim as an asset of the arrangement any after-acquired assets. Any such asset will be subject to and be an asset of the arrangement.

14(2) After-acquired assets must only be sold or realised to the extent necessary to repay the creditors in full with any interest they are entitled to under the arrangement.

Any gift I submit above £500 is caught - however as Melanie and I differ in intrepretation I will have it brought up at the Technical Sub-Committee meeting scheduled for 14 January and hopefully get a definitive ruling at the Standing Committee meeting on Jan 22.

The difficulty is to reconcile a debtor in an IVA who has promised a dividend which is less than what was originally owed - and agreed by contract (that is what an IVA is) to receive a smaller sum - and yet getting a gift which some say should not be paid over for the benefit of creditors.

Merry Xmas to all.

[john.jk]

Thank you for all your replies ?
Yes the VERY SMALL CHEQUE !!! was a xmas gift and not a bonus !!! Still non the wiser ?
Happy new year to you all x

[kallis3]

A very small cheque as a Christmas gift I, personally, think would be ok.

If you're not happy, then contact your IP.

[MelanieGiles]

John

As I said in my earlier post, please contact your IP directly in this regard. They know your case, they understand the modifications you may well be subject to, and will be able to give you first hand advice as to the treatment of this money.

[n958g]

Like i asked before, why not cash it and not even bother telling anyone about it? Not sure why this is an issue?

[kallis3]

It is obviously bothering him, and he wants to do the right thing! His IP will sort it for him.

[David Mond]

I disagree with some of you who have posted "don't tell your IP" If your IP finds out he could fail your arrangement.Always be truthfull with your IP - it will stand you in good stead during the continuance of your arrangment. Most gifts under £500 are ignored - but what I have said earlier is my intrepretation of "windfalls" and a gift is a windfall.

[Skippy]

I just feel that it's very petty if a Christmas or birthday gift needed to be handed over. As I said before I was given cash as gifts, but I know I wouldn't have been given this if my mum or uncle thought it would be paid into an IVA.

Surely there needs to be some give and take in an IVA? There are often posts on the forum from people who are struggling, but their IP doesn't want to know - not wonder people resent handing over gifts.

[David Mond]

But Skippy you have to remember that most people in an IVA are paying off a percentage of what they owe - by creditors agreeing to the Proposal - as I have already articulated why should any gift over £500 be kept by the debtor in these circumstances?

[Skippy]

I do understand that David as I was in an IVA for a short time, but I just feel that in a lot of cases the gift wouldn't be given in the first place if it was going into the IVA. If someone I knew was in an IVA I would make sure I gave cash so that they could keep the money.

And what about smaller amounts? From what I understand the cheque the original poster is talking about is less than £500. 5 years is a long time when you don't have any holidays or luxuries, so where's the harm in allowing someone to keep a birthday gift?

If you're taking this to extremes, surely birthday/Christmas presents should be sold and the proceeds paid into the IVA?

[kallis3]

My parents gave us the money to pay for the service on the car, and two new tyres - should I have declared this cash gift as it was a fair amount.

[David Mond]

It is always a question of degree - As I have said under £500 there is not a problem - yes I agree if someone is aware that a gift of over £500 will go into an IVA then there is no point in giving it. Moral - ensure gifts are less than £500 and spaced out over a reasonable period - in any event I will be making representations at the next IVA Standing Committee Meeting.

[kalla]

It sounds like we need a legal expert to interpret these clauses cited on the mods and were they ever drafted by equally qualified legal people - probably not-even though the mods are legal documents in effect and henceforth its the legal opinion that counts here and not any Ips I am afraid. My view is that some someone forget a gift can be made to a debtor and missed out the word GIFT and its consideration. To say a winfall is a gift is like ASKING whether someone in a long coma is dead or alive??

So when is a gift a winfall and when is a windfall not a gift and I am sure the oxford Dictionary doesn't define a winfall as a gift and vice versa.

If an IVA person gets a gift of £499.95p a month every month from a rich man I am sure an IP or creditor will take issue.


A rubic cube would frustrate less