A friend in an IVA is trying to hide a sum of money

[cindy.me]

Hi Jan - please don't apologise for disagreeing. I know from reading these boards that my situation was quite unusual compared to others' experiences. I guess my point is that the way the IVA was 'pitched' to me at the start, i did not realise that i should tell them about everything and that the dividend ought to be increased where possible. I almost forgot about it whereas from reading other experiences, i now see how much i got away with.
I won't name the IP but i will say they were so slack, they didn't ask for one P60 and as a result, they missed quite a big chunk of money. It was there to be seen, they just never asked.

Rayb - understand your point and of course i had every intention of pay the money off but circumstances took over and it sounds a bit rubbish now but i borrowed money to get a close relative out of big trouble, but left myself in trouble. The IVA was sold to me as a way of 'wiping out' part of my debts, not monitoring my income for 5 years - so that was how i approached it. Morals are a very subjective thing. I am a moralistic person generally - it was morals that got me into this mess in the first place - but my conscience is clear when it comes to this. Sorry if that offends you.

Tona - yes i was lucky and i am sorry if i am rubbing people up the wrong way, this is just how it was for me and i know now how it could have been.

[Skippy]

I have to agree with Rayb and Jan. The idea of an IVA is to pay back as much to your creditors as possible, not to exaggerate expenditure and hide windfalls.

[Michael Peoples]

I have to agree with Tina and can fully understand where Cindy is coming from. There has to be a balance and while in Cindy's case the balance was in her favour, there are many others where the balance has swung against them.

IVAs are not meant to be a punishment but a compromise. Bankruptcy was much easier in the past and much more attractive to a debtor than an IVA.

[kallis3]

I have never sent off a P60, but my payslips go off every three months and there is a running total at the bottom.

I must admit that thinking back to when I was first looking at getting out of debt, way back in 2006, the adverts were all pitched at the amount of debt that could be written off and they were all over the place. I think they have tightened up since then.

Stupid thing is that we were told we had too much disposable income to be able to do an IVA by one firm, another told us we should sell our car and then go bankrupt!.

I now pay out less for my IVA than I did my DMP, and that payment included monthly fees.

[TheMatrix]

My IP asks for the latest P60 every year, but due to when they do the review it's always the one from the previous tax year.

[MelanieGiles]

Properly presented and managed IVAs already allow a balance of compromise between debtor and creditors, and a sensible IP will always consider the debtor's position as well as creditors. There should be no need for hidden agendas in well run practices - and clients need to be fully briefed about their responsibilities from the outset. After all - everyone has a choice.

[OPTIMIST12]

I must admit that I find cindy's post a little unusual. Cindy - it is clear from your posts that you are an intelligent person - I am at a loss when you say that you "did not realise that I should tell them about everything....". Surely anyone embarking on an IVA must realise that the whole ethos of this is to repay as much as possible???

On another point - I know that Melanie has made clear in the past that I.P.s are subject to the scrutiny of professional bodies - how on earth did your I.P. escaope such scrutiny - as illustrated in your account in respect of his / her seemingly laissez-faire attitude? I am confused!!!!

[stewpots]

Now i know i'm sticking my neck way out here for criticism but i have been a lurker on this site for a long time and i am always amazed at how righteous some people can be...

I completed my IVA some time ago and the IP i used just let me get on with things and i merely considered it a monthly bill. I understand now about the need to try and increase your dividend as best you can but at the time i didn't, and i have to say my IP definitely didn't encourage me to. FOr the duration of my IVA, my salary increased by about £6k, but my payments never did. i never had to show payslips or bank statements, just my P60 at the time of my review. Because of this, my IP had no clue about my personal circumstances, and never questioned me. At the time it was set up, they got me to max on all the entitlements so i had as much cash as possible for things i didn't actually need to pay for.

I read about people living and breathing their IVA every day but i have to balance it out just a little bit - i barely gave mine a thought, didn't worry about it and then it was over and i got my certificate and i am getting on with life as i was before. I have no guilt - I am debt free and i don't think one of my creditors are losing sleep because little old me couldn't pay them back in full. I had very difficult circumstances at the time and got myself out of debt. I would say at least a third of my debt was interest piled on by the greedy corporates anyway. I didn't consider any additional cash i got to be anyone's business but my own. How controversial! But i think that's how a lot of people feel and it quite realistic. CAn you honestly say if someone put a wad of cash in your hand, you'd immediately ring your IP? I doubt it.

Sorry if this shocks you but this was my experience and it does sadden me that other people seem so invaded by the process when mine was a breeze.

I will now go and hide

Yes I have to hide now , so I don't post on here any more.

Some of the comments 'did my head in'

e.g you must pay 50% of your £8 overtime...

or we should feel like vermin and thankful every minute of every day as the credit card companies 'allowed' us to go into an IVA etc etc

[mole]

I guess it all depends on circumstance. I have not been in a position to benefit from any windfall but if my experience of an IVA had been one of constant struggle for x years with no occasional relief. Then I guess I may be tempted to 'treat' my family to a little something and tuck away a little money as contingency to remove the worry factor of "what if?". If my IVA was easy and I was coping well, had built up a contingency then I think it is easy to play by the rules.

The post by cindy is an interesting one, for some people the best way to cope is to forget about it, pay your dividend and live life. For others, the mutual support of a site like this is invaluable.

I think I go through periods of both!!

I am not advocating or saying I would do this but understand why some people may.

[Broke of London]

I wondered where you had been recently. You should start posting again; I hate to think you were driven away. How have things been going lately?

I actually agree with you fundamentally, the financial system failed and we are living proof that there needed to be better regulation. Where I differ is that I believe the thick end of responsibility lies with me and consequently, have to do my best to repay my debts. Even in the IVA process the banks etc act disgracefully and this shows they are willing to compromise for commercial reasons but do not accept their share of responsibility on an individual basis (though they have seen the need to change their lending code nationally).

It would be good to start hearing from you again x

[Skippy]

Stewpots, I'm sorry some of the comments 'did your head in'. However this forum will always give honest advice, which for various reasons some people won't like.

[kallis3]

I agree with Skippy - the forum will always be honest with advice and some people don't like what they are told.

[MelanieGiles]

I don't understand the comments Stewpot - why do you feel "treated like vermin" when presumably you are in an IVA which was explained to you from the outset and which you freely entered into in the knowledge of all of the terms and conditions.

IPs simply expect their clients to honour their commitments to the contract - after all we don't make up the rules just enforce them - and creditors expect their customers to pay their monies in line with the contract.

It is great to see you back posting - the forum needs a good balance of views from all sides of the fence.

[Foggy]

Hmmm -- interesting spread of opinion here. I, for one, and I am sure I am not alone, don't feel like vermin. When I borrowed the money, foolishly or not, I was able and committed to repaying it. Circumstances conspired against me and I fell into the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" viscious circle.

I have no equity to offer, or home to lose, being in rented property, my job will tolerate bankrupts, so I could have gone down that route and might have wiped all of my debt off. But, I promised to repay when I took the money, and want to try to repay as much as possible -- simple as that.

Human nature is "to get away with as much as we can", my moral code is to "live up to your responsibilities". Being frail beings, we try to steer a mid course. Some veer over one way, some the other way, to varying degrees.

If I had an IP like Cindy's, to be honest, I might take the route she did. At the end of the day she fullfilled her "promises" made on entering her IVA, and fully complied. It was the IP at fault, to a great degree. I have made a different committment ... to repay as much as possible ... so I now have to honour that.

Now --- if this horse gets any higher I will fall off and break my neck, so I will shut up now

[kallis3]

I have never felt like vermin, and never been treated as such. I borrowed the money and I intended to pay it back - I overstretched and now I'm doing what I can to pay back as much as I can.

I do have equity so bankruptcy has never been an option but I know I will have to continue for an extra 12 months as I won't be able to remortgage.

The forum will never treat people as vermin either - we give an honest and balanced view of things.