A friend in an IVA is trying to hide a sum of money

[dizzy.r]

Hi Paul
This must be hugely provocative to you and to all those of us who have conducted our IVA's with openness and honesty. However, I would have thought that their dishonesty could be found out anyway. Possibly, if the money is in their child's account it could eventually be linked back to them. If they are found out there could be huge repercussions for them some of which cannot be foreseen. No one but you can decide, we are all different I guess, I know if it was me and I 'blew the whistle' on a friend I would probably end up with a guilty conscience that would be ultimately worse than any disgust I might feel – especially as they have a child.

I take it you have made your feelings known to them?

[Tina Shortland]

Gosh - what an interesting debate has been had whilst I have not popped onto this thread!

Stewpots - great to see you back - and yes, I would take that hour to look, touch and smell before ringing the IP - torture but its not often you could have that amount in front of you.....and now back to the real world!!!

Paul - what a moral dilemma. Only you now the relationship you have with your relative and how best to handle them. There is no right or wrong - we all look at things from different angles - to not say anything could be seen as joining in the deceipt by some, equally it could be seen as not interfering by others. To say something could be seen as doing the honest thing, or it could be seen as betrayal. Do what feels right for you.

'Vermin' is such a harsh and derogatory description but sadly, so many pepole that ring for help feel exactly like this - second class citizens - its heartbreaking, especially when all that has happened is someone has got their finances in a big mess. I often find my first job before we even get talking about the numbers is to make that person feel worthy again and to get things in perspective.

Howard07 - best of luck once your IVA has completed and with finding a new job. Roll on April!

Thinks that covered the specifics I wanted to comment on.

Have a good day everyone.

[OPTIMIST12]

Speaking for myself - and looking at the wider picture - my concern here is that any examples of cases where people are bragging - or just talking about - failing to pay sums of money into their IVAs may well ultimately downgrade the view of IVAs taken by creditors. This could impact on the acceptance rate of future IVAs. As exhibited by my posts over the years I am almost obsessive in trying to pay every last penny into my arrangement and it makes me despair when I read of people trying to evade their obligations. An IVA is an amazing second chance - it is such a shame that some people try to abuse this. I am about to enter the final year of my arrangement and it has been a godsend for me.

Paul - as others have said - it is up to you what you say to your friend / relative - you must weigh things up in your own mind. It is ultimately their choice and responsibility.

[rayb]

Totally agree Optimist12. I am forever grateful for the 2nd chance to at least pay some of my debt back. Again after all we all borrowed it in good faith with the intention of paying it back didnt we???? Or at least some of us did by the sounds of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[andrea1968]

This wasnt just a second chance for us-it was our last chance.
I had to give up work a year ago through ill-health and went from earning a very good wage to nothing overnight. I was self-employed so there was no severance pay or sick pay from employer.
We had no chance of surviving on hubbys wage and my disability benefits so immediately took financial advice.
Bankruptcy was a no no because of hubbys job so we went for debt management firstly to see if the creditors froze any interest or charges-they didnt.
I never wanted sympathy from them just a bit of understanding-as previously we had an excellent payment record.
Anyway-7 months in and none of the creditors freezing anything-we went for the iva.
The major creditor-Northern rock-who were adamant they would get their full balance owed with interest,charges and anything else they felt like adding on-agreed to the iva!!!!mind boggling.The same with the other big creditors-all voted yes.
So-here we are - 5 months down the line and everything has come together nicely.
Hubby just got a promotion and payrise-which we shall see some of.
So lifes good at the moment.
Would I try to hide any of it and risk losing everything we have worked damned hard for-NEVER.
That is the reality of what your friend is risking Paul-everything they have all through greed.
Good luck to them-they might need it!!!

[MelanieGiles]

I'd just like to make a point to Howard if he is looking in.

The redundancy money you have received is a windfall in your IVA - which crystallises when you become entitled to the money. So your IP and creditors do not lose that right once the IVA term has expired - and I am suprised that you have not been asked to hand it over, less a six months allowance for lost salary.

[luluj]

This thread could continue for years to come with everyone's viewpoints...should we consider closing it....but before we do here is mine...

your relative borrowed the money

your relative spent the money

your relative agreed to repay a % of it back via an IVA

your relative should be honest and comply to the conditions of her IVA - pay the money across as per her agreement !

[MRBLUESKY]

i just want to repeat what mel has said,totally agree.if you wanted to offer a full and final with a percentage of redundancy money,leaving yourself a pot of cash more than the 6 months salary,you should have stated this in the offer,on the bases you will only volunteer for the redundancy that is on offer if the creditors accept the offer,giving them the full information on the amount available from your company.what you seemed to have done is jumped the gate i,m afraid so it should be classed has a windfall and all monies should be treated as a windfall and handed over less upto 6 months salary according to iva regulations.

[Broke of London]

Hi Paul - what a difficult position to be in. I probably wouldn't shop my relative as I'd worry about the future of the child and end up feeling far worse than they ever did. You might bring to their attention that in addition to failing the IVA, criminal proceedings can be brought if it was ever discovered. And that she is using her child to launder money and for criminal activity! You can always threaten to inform her IP (name can be found if you look up your relative on the insolvency register) and see if this gets her to act properly. Good lick and let us know what you decide xx

[orange]

i can understand cindys comments on the unknown! its a rollercoaster ride to a iva and you get there and your just glad to be getting off!,ok so its explained but i agree we didnt understand fully the strain or stress it causes .Now we are grateful for doing what was the unknown! path and are very pleased to be on the end of the long long path .
thread about the windfall is interesting and its interesting that most would own up.im going to be contrerversal and say yes i accept the rules of the iva and no im not sure what id do in that situation ! to tell or not is the question !

[sophie0119]

I totally understand Cindy's comments. I have said before I truely believe I entered into my IVA in a blind panic and didn't understand and take in everything that was going on. I am almost 2 yrs into my IVA and it is only in the last couple of months I have really started to understand my IVA and thats thanks to this site.

My IP asks for 3 pay slips, 3 months bank statements, my council tax bill and my P60 once a year at review time. I do all this and thought it was the norm until reading other peoples posts. So if I'd been in Cindy's shoes when her IP said they didn't need her P60, I would not have questioned it either.

As for the windfall, I think it would be very tempting to try and hide it but the worry of being found out would make me tell my IP !

[kallis3]

I would certainly try to use a windfall to pay off my IVA. I certainly wouldn't hide it anywhere.

I totally agree with Luluj's comments.

[mole]

I think it depends on the amount. If it was a couple of grand, I would be tempted, not to spend it, but to save it away. Always seem to be in a panic and worried that something will happen to cause this to fail and back to square one. A bit of contingnecy in the bank can only help the IVA succeed.

Indeed perhaps that would be a good change to the IVA statute. Overpayments (bonus, windfall, etc) could be held in leui by your IP for the term of your IVA. Any issues could dip into this fund. If not used at the end of the IVA it would be paod to creditors.

Sounds too sensible to be applied.

[kallis3]

I think this is one of those threads that can run on and on as we all have our different views on what we would do.

[Broke of London]

I don't think there is such a thing as the perfect iva! However, they are the best option we have and all enter into them knowing what we are signing up for so the least we can do is honour our commitment.

I don't buy into 'i didn't know' or 'my IP didn't ask' - as grown adults who've signed enough contracts to get ourselves into this mess we should all be able to take responsibility for the success of our ivas.