Susan and Gareth are working hard to change the creditors minds on this, before the 14 day adjournment is up.
Speaking to Susan earlier about the case raised an interesting issue for me though. It sounds like there are two organisations representing all my creditors - Grant Thornton and TIX. From what I can make out, these organisation are employed by my creditors (about ten in total) to deal with the IVA, a little bit like a debt collection agency. From the way they are both acting, it looks like they have their own global policies and procedures which are adopted by all the individual creditors who employ their services to get the best return. This raises the question to me as to what happens to the 75% voting rule?
If you have only two organisations representing all creditors, and the value is split roughly half-way, does this not make a mockery of the idea that if 75% of creditors by value agree with a proposal then it goes through?
In my case, both organisations are seeking an extension of the IVA term, but if my assumptions are correct it would mean that even if only one had an objection then the IVA could not go through as the other probably wouldn't be representing 75% of the debt....
Maybe I've got it all wrong, but it looks like yet more unethical collection activity from creditors to me......
I believe that even though it is just two companies, they vote seperately for the different creditors. I don't think there is anything unethical about it.
I'm sure one of the experts will be along to advise about this.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
I see what you mean, but I get the impression that they vote individually for each of the creditors based upon their own (TIX or GT) criteria - and therefore either yes or no on behalf of all the creditors they represent.
I may be totally wrong, and that's really why I posted, as I'm interested to know!
I don't think that is the case, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Hopefully one of the experts will pick up on this and be able to answer your query better than I can!
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
Creditors voting representatives work to the criteria set by their clients and not their own. Grant Thornton are a very respectable firm of accountants, who also propose their own IVAs, and TiX represent a number of the major banks - but they often vote with different criteria depending upon the client.
We may not always like their views, but we have to respect their position in the marketplace, as they must respect the financial position of our clients. Generally on the whole things tend to work very well, but there will always be the odd hiccup to override.
You have a good IP working for you, so leave it with her to deal with on your behalf and I am sure a sensible solution to suit all parties will eventually be reached.
Thanks for the clarification Melanie. I really hope I didn't give the impression that my post was in any way a criticism of your team or Susan. That couldn't be further from my mind - the help and service I've received from day one has been exceptional.
The only thing I would take issue with in your post is the suggestion that a reputable organisation is any different to another. Many 'reputable' members of my creditor list have acted incredibly unethically over the past six months or so... Having said that, you've probably guessed that I have a pretty low opinion of them!
What you have to remember is that your creditors employ very low paid call centre workers who have a script, are after commission and are told to do anything to get money out of you.
They are nothing to do with the people who vote.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
kallis3 wrote:
What you have to remember is that your creditors employ very low paid call centre workers who have a script, are after commission and are told to do anything to get money out of you.
They are nothing to do with the people who vote.
Yes, I'm sure that's the case, but the organisations themselves have to accept responsibility for the actions of their employees. If necessary, they need to change their processes and remuneration practises if this is the cause of the unethical behaviour that is so common.
If they turn a blind eye to the actions of their collections departments, I'm sure I could be forgiven for assuming that they could do the same when it comes to organisations who work on their behalf. Just look at some of the DCAs that 'respectable' (sorry Melanie, I substituted 'reputable' in my last post) banks employ!
Anyway, enough of my ranting - the pooch is politely requesting a replacement chew and I'm rapidly becoming a grumpy old man......!
I did not think you were critising Sue or the team at all Bumpkin! I know how much the IVA means to you, but understand that you have principles and a line in the sand which you are not prepared to jump over. Your views are very much respected, and I do understand your frustration, but the role of an IP is to sit somewhere in the middle and try to bring both sides together to a place where they sit most comfortable.
Sue and I work closely together, and I have been following your case with interest this week - and dealing with issues at the most highest level in each voting representative - but I do not wish to discuss these matters on a public forum.
Hang in there - I am sure the righ solution is just around the corner.
MelanieGiles wrote:
I did not think you were critising Sue or the team at all Bumpkin!
Thank goodness for that - I'm paranoid as well as grumpy!
MelanieGiles wrote:
Your views are very much respected, and I do understand your frustration, but the role of an IP is to sit somewhere in the middle and try to bring both sides together to a place where they sit most comfortable.
It's funny - I was only thinking about that earlier. It must be so difficult to retain that balance at times. It must be one of the few professions where you have to tread so carefully to remain fair to both sides.
For what it's worth - I think you do a great job.... [:)]
It is quite hard - Sue and I wanted to explode over another case with silly modifications today, but had to remind ourselves that it was Friday and the sun was shining!! A tough job, but extremely rewarding!
I'll bet the air is blue in your office sometimes Mel!
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
