BR and Charging order

[fudge34]

Hi everyone, skips, lily, andy. Sorry I haven't been in touch recently we have been without broadband for almost 3 weeks due to a change in our supplier so this is the first chance I have had to email you all. Had some good news today (needed it) our two valuations from estate agents came in at 160.000 which is what I was praying they would be so need to go back to the OR now with our BI suggestion. In the meantime have received a nasty letter from NR who have said that they are placing a charging order on the house etc. OR said to send it to him for him to deal with. But received another letter today saying
"We refer to the interim Charging order dated 16th Oct (I went BR on the 12th of September which they knew) upon instructions from NR we request that the Interim order be discharged and the final charging order hearing of 8th Jan be vacated - I have no idea what this means - can you help me? these letters always arrive on a SAT where I can't get in touch with my OR and now I am panicking again

[Adam Davies]

Hi
Well they can,t place a charging order post bankruptcy and it sounds as if,from todays letter,they are withdrawing their charging order.
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[fudge34]

Hi Andy
thanks for the reply - yeah that is what I am thinking reading through it again as it has the hearing date to be vacated which makes me think they have seen sense and have dropped this - they already knew I had gone BR as myself and the OR told them this on the date that it happened! just the BI on the house to sort out next and then I can start looking forward at last! One last q - I am due a large pay increase next year but i want to put it off until I am discharged from BR Sept 2008 if I receive extra money after I am discharged this is mine to keep isn't it? they aren't suddenly going to put me on a IPO are they?

[MelanieGiles]

Once you are discharged from bankruptcy, you no longer have to make any declarations to the OR about your circumstances.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[jane.l]

Mmmm, we got the Interim Charging Order from NROCK too, AFTER the bankruptcy date, the date for final Charging Order is 14 November, I got a letter saying they will go ahead with that court date but they do know about the bankruptcy, I thought they would “cancel” the court date but they haven’t. Just hope they sort it out.

[fudge34]

Well according to my OR the property becomes the interest of the OR after BR and no one else can have it as it were. He said that NR always try it on but no judge would allow them to have it as this would be seen has favouring them over other creditors which does make sense, therefore this is why the OR is the trustee as his job is to sort out and make sure all creditors get equal treatment. It might be worth giving your OR a call? The wording on my letter said interim charging order to be discharged and that the final charging order hearing of 8th Jan be vacated?! not sure what that means! how did you get on with your IPO in the end did your OR see sense?

[jane.l]

We are still waiting, have not heard anything, although today hubby got a form to sign for his Nil Tax IPA, so not sure if that is it or they are going to push for the other one!!! My Child Benefit for eldest child has stopped now so I think our surplus is about £45 now, that going off the OR’s figures, maybe I should ring them but I daren’t, last time I rang , I was told NO IPA and then 2 days later, they ‘phoned and said they are going to try to get one!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MelanieGiles]

If you get an IPA Jane I will eat my insolvency licence!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[mish1953]

Jane - your child benefit does not count as income .. there is a conflict of information on the Insolvency web site ...

The main leaflet says ...
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/guidancele ... ipoipa.htm

What do I include in my income?
Your income includes all payments you get, including income from self-employment, PAYE employment, benefits (including child benefit and child tax credit), working tax credit and any payments under a pension scheme.

But their technical manual says
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofi ... part_2.htm

The notable exceptions to this rule when dealing with state benefits is child benefit. The High Court has stated as a matter of public policy that child benefit and similar benefits should not be included in the statement of income when applying for an IPO and there is no reason why this point should not be extended to cover IPAs.

In my case my IPA does not take child benefit or child tax credit into account .. thank God !

cheers
Mish

[jane.l]

I hope you are right! I just wish they would tell us, it’s the worrying and waiting after the assistant told me on the phone that he wanted to take an IPA of £100 per month!

[jane.l]

Mish, Yes, the assistant told me they ARE counting the Child Benefit as MY income and he wants to take the £100 per month IPA out of hubby’s wage!

[fudge34]

This is what makes me so mad! my OR said to me that they cannot legally take the child benefit as it belongs in essence to the child which is why you get it as a parent. I cannot believe that your OR can take this it seems a conflict of everything that I have read and have been told and doesn't follow any typical protocol, i.e. you do not have to name this when you do a tax return, you do not have to name this when you fill out tax credits, you do not have to name this when you are seeking other benefits why are they doing this to you, its grossly unfair and doesn't follow the protocol! I will fight your corner on this one Jane!

[mish1953]

It may be worth asking why the information publically available on their own website at

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofi ... part_2.htm

shows that they shouldnt ..

As on other threads on the site , there are some worrying inconsistencies about how Examiners calculate I & E .. I can understand some measure of discretion about household expenses but when it comes to state benefits they should have a consistent approach.

State benefits are paid from taxation and are for a specific need so there are 2 issues
1) should the creditors be getting money paid from state funds , which is effect paid for by texpayers.
2) state benefit specifically allocated for a need such as child care are in effect being used to pay creditors and are therefore not available for the child .

I really feel quite strongly about this , its morally wrong and legally dubious as it could be classed as mis-use of state funds.

rant, rave, mutter, dribble ..

Slainte
Mish

[Adam Davies]

Hi
I too was under the impression that child benefit and tax credits are excluded from income for assessing an IPA in bankruptcy
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[jane.l]

I did query it on the phone, I said I thought they could not count Child Benefit as income but he said “technically we will be taking the IPA from your husband’s wage” so I presumed this was some way around the rules!!!!!

If they do not count Chid Benefit as income, then our I&E would be in the negative each month and we will not have enough to live off!