CAB just heard on radio... is this right?

[kallis3]

Just a query NED-CAB - is your guide for anyone, or only for those within your region?

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

Cheers Kallis

Glad to be back:)

Free and available to anyone, anywhere to use or utilise - with more developments in the pipeline.

NED-CAB

[kallis3]

Thanks for that. I've had a quick look and on the face of it seems ok.

Will have to go back for a more 'in depth' look!!

[Michael Peoples]

Good to see Nick and NedCab posting but to be fair we are more interested in scrutinising the so called 'debt charities' who charge fees for IVAs and receive commission for DMPs.

I would be interested in either of your opinions on these.

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

Hi Michael

We respect your interests but points have been raised and questions asked directly about the CAB on this thread, the original post and others since clearly show this.

[MelanieGiles]

Absolutely - always valuable to have Mr Pearson's view on issues like this.

We all know about how the CAB is organised, and the very good work that they do often with very limited resources - not just in the personal debt sector but in the welfare market generally. For those reasons, it is important that the CAB are able to signpost in debted persons to professional advisers at the earliest opportunity, and if they choose to use the "free" or "charity" sector because there is a perceived better quality and standard then so be it, or better support to their clients, then I would love to see what research they have undertaken to support this or benchmarked information that is being used to measure.

I am more interested in seeking the comparison between those firms who provide IVA services on completely commercial terms, but who are supported by creditors and the media on grounds of difference and free to consumer. There is no difference - and those persons or firms who promote themselves as free providers of IVA services, and who charge commission payments to the "charities" on grounds of receiving a donation need very closely looking at by the OFT. This is wrong, anti-competitive, and this debate will only get more interesting as time rolls onwards.

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

Hi Melanie

There are no free providers of IVAs as you know - all charge fees (please someone correct us if we are wrong, we would love to know of such companies)

You also make some fair points and you could very well be right with regard to debates rolling on.

We would also like to point out that recently we are experiencing an increase in people contacting us with enquiries and problems concerning IVAs

NED-CAB

[Michael Peoples]

I am aware that the CAB refers their clients to Grant Thornton where IVAs are appropriate. GT are an excellent firm but they are a commercial operation and charge fees. The CCCS also refer their self employed clients to GT because they are either unable or unwilling to process such cases. I do not know how much GT pay [if anything] for these referrals but many people are being advised to use the 'free' sector and are then passed on to the commercial sector possibly for a referral fee.

I do not believe that this information is widely available and rather than being advised to go to the free sector and then passed around, clients could be advised to go directly to the commercial sector because that is where they will end up eventually if an IVA is the correct option. Cuts out the middle man while speeding the whole process up and most IP firms will give an initial free consultation explaining the pro and cons of every option.

[MelanieGiles]

Understand your comments NED - and as you know from my visit to your offices a year or so ago - I share the concerns about people unhappy with their IVA providers, which generally appear to be from poor initial advice and lack of ongoing communication. I spend a lot of time off-line from the forum discussing similar issues which people who are not clients of my firm.

I cannot speak for the firms who are supervising the cases which are referred to CAB as complaints, and wonder if you measure them in terms of complaints from IPs who operate in the commercial sector and those who operate under the "free" banner.

It is good to see you still looking into ther forum occasionally, and taking part in good and healthy debate.

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles

Understand your comments NED - and as you know from my visit to your offices a year or so ago - I share the concerns about people unhappy with their IVA providers, which generally appear to be from poor initial advice and lack of ongoing communication. I spend a lot of time off-line from the forum discussing similar issues which people who are not clients of my firm.

I cannot speak for the firms who are supervising the cases which are referred to CAB as complaints, and wonder if you measure them in terms of complaints from IPs who operate in the commercial sector and those who operate under the "free" banner.

It is good to see you still looking into ther forum occasionally, and taking part in good and healthy debate.

Hi Melanie

As you know your visit to NEDCAB was very well received and you are welcome to visit us again sometime (time does seem to have flown by)

Speaking for NEDCAB - we do not measure IVA enquiries in the manner you mention.

What we would say is that the cases we deal with are from a cross section of providers, we cannot really mention names on here as you can appreciate other than to say that some companies names do seem to come up more than others, perhaps this may have something to do with the volumes individual providers handle.

Just to clarify NEDCABs position with regard to IVA referrals, below is taken from the IVA section on our website (we have no policy of referring direct to any individual companies)

If you decide on an IVA as a method of dealing with your debts, you should consult several Insolvency Practitioners and compare what they charge (some don't charge up front fees) before asking any of them to act on your behalf. Insolvency Practitioners are usually accountants, some are solicitors and their fees are similar to those charged by members of these professions for other kinds of work.

Regrettably, we have seen clients who have been offered or entered into IVAs which they do not fully understand. In some cases it has been disturbingly clear that other more suitable and considerably less expensive options (example bankruptcy) have not been fully explored. If you have any doubts get advice from a free independent agency such as Citizens Advice or CCCS before deciding on / signing up to an IVA.



NED-CAB

[MelanieGiles]

I would love to come and see you guys again and hear some of the issues you face at ground level - IPs need to keep on their toes at all times, and if there are issues in the professional we need to be able to sort out from withing, via our trade associations and through sensible and mutually beneficial discussion.

I cannot agree more with the comments you have on your website - are you actually saying then that the CAB does not refer directly to IP firms, as this would appear to contradict Michael's earlier points.

The role of the IP is to ensure that their clients are fully appraised of all of the options, and if a DMP is chosen that there are free providers and fee paying companies as well to choose from. I would never recommend any particular option to a client, but I do make sure that they are fully advised about all options - highlighting the advantages, disadvantages and implications of each one tailored to my clients own individual circumstances. As you know I deal with all of my clients personally and directly, so that I can be sure that there can be no miscommunication.

[Michael Peoples]

NEDCAB.
You refer to the CCCS as a free, independent agency and attach a link to their site.

This is misleading as the CCCS are not free and charge fees just like any other firm. I also have my doubts about their independence but that is for another day.

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles

I would love to come and see you guys again and hear some of the issues you face at ground level - IPs need to keep on their toes at all times, and if there are issues in the professional we need to be able to sort out from withing, via our trade associations and through sensible and mutually beneficial discussion.

I cannot agree more with the comments you have on your website - are you actually saying then that the CAB does not refer directly to IP firms, as this would appear to contradict Michael's earlier points.

The role of the IP is to ensure that their clients are fully appraised of all of the options, and if a DMP is chosen that there are free providers and fee paying companies as well to choose from. I would never recommend any particular option to a client, but I do make sure that they are fully advised about all options - highlighting the advantages, disadvantages and implications of each one tailored to my clients own individual circumstances. As you know I deal with all of my clients personally and directly, so that I can be sure that there can be no miscommunication.

Hi Melanie

We are speaking for the NEDCABs policy on IP referrals.

Our advisers do highlight the issue of up front fees however when advising clients on IVAs.

NEDCAB

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Michael Peoples

NEDCAB.
You refer to the CCCS as a free, independent agency and attach a link to their site.

This is misleading as the CCCS are not free and charge fees just like any other firm. I also have my doubts about their independence but that is for another day.

Hi Michael

CCCS are a registered charity.

If you have doubts on CCCS please do not let us stop you from airing them on this forum.

NEDCAB

[MelanieGiles]

Not sure what point you are coming back to me on about up front fees NEDCAB? Can you clarify please?