CAB just heard on radio... is this right?

[Rosepetal]

hi, we contacted the CAB at the end of 2010 after I found out my husband had a huge amount of debt.

the CAB were very helpful, until that meeting we'd never heard of IVA'S or even basic bank accounts.

the money advisor we saw told us," we normally refer clients sutable for a IVA onto Grant Thornton or Payplan".he said that the CAB would set the meeting up for us. he told us that Payplan are a charity.

with more information we used the web,found the forum & decided to go with Mel Giles.

there have been several posts of late from people with Payplan who are very worried about some of the conditions written into their proposals.

[MelanieGiles]

Perhaps the CAB should change their policy and simply suggest that people interested should be referred to iva.co.uk or iva.com - where the full range of firms are available to choose from!

[Rosepetal]

Mel, just wanted you personally to know that we are so glad/grateful that we found you & your team.

It's a year tomorrow that we had our much needed creditors meeting!!!!!!

we've been talking tonight,taking stock of where we were,the mess we were in this very time last year & where we are tonight. we are in such a different place.
not just with money but with the honesty we have. the budget Tina gave us - which we still follow, works.

it's not been an easy year ( still in the process of re paying my parents for the £ they lent us for our F&F)but it has been a better year.

a year on,your help made a difference,thankyou x

[Broke of London]

It seems disingenuous to suggest a registered charity cannot act commercially (ie be a business) when it is acknowledged that they charge a fee for a service. It is also incorrect to divide the market into fee-charging iva providers and iva providers -since it has also been acknowledged that all iva providers charge fees so there is no need for the distinction. On that point, ned-cab have said they don't have stats on which firms the complaints come from, so they shouldn't make assertions/dispersions about them coming from fee-charging iva providers (is there any other kind?). It's also pretty disingenuous to suggest a single link on the website doesn't indicate a preference or referral - as someone has already mentioned, a link to one of the comparison sites would be truly unbiased. Sorry for the flurry of comments! I've just caught up on this and read everything in one go!

[MelanieGiles]

You have had a brilliant year Rosepetal, and I am glad that you ultimately chose my firm to act for you. It is great to keep in touch with ex-clients who have been so happy with the outcome.

I agree with Broke of London's points about charities being able to charge fees - why not? so long as what they do with the money is fully accountable and publicly disclosed.

I think that we also need to bear in mind that for the number of complaints that are made to the government bodies and IP's regulators, there are a vast number of silent clients who are simply happy with the route they chose and these are by far in the vast majority - of course there should be no complaints and I accept this point. Speaking to my own regulators on this point quite recently, they tell me that actual complaints about IVAs are relatively minor, and generally relate to lack of communication between IP and client, or misundertandings more than anything else, which are easily resolved. If the regulators are not seeing the complaints, what is actually happening to them out in the field, regardless of who the firms are that are in the firing line?

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

Hi

Looking back through this thread.

A lot seems to have been made of the link from our website to the CCCS one and we have faced a number of questions that arguably should really be directed at the CCCS.

We have made it more than clear that there are fees to be paid with regard to IVAs irrespective of who the IVA provider is.

We have also stated that NEDCAB have no formal referral system with CCCS with regard to IVAs or Debt Management Plans for that matter.

Below are links to two sections of our website (these include the paragraphs we have already highlighted where the CCCS link sits). Taking into account a number of comments posted we would ask people to take the time to look through the links below and you will see that along with others, we do indeed have links to this forum, the Insolvency Service and to a list of Insolvency Practitioners. We believe this does give a genuine choice and is not geared to one particular provider.

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/remedy_6.asp

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/iva.asp

If any of the experts or posters on here feel there are ways that we can improve our website IVA section (or any other part) then please feel free to contact us or post your suggestions on here and we will give them due consideration.

Also given some of the comments made and in the name of genuine independent impartial advice perhaps there could be consideration given by some to putting links to NEDCAB on their sites :)http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/
along with other charity websites:)

PS - not really enough informationn yet on the radio broadcast for us to comment further.

Great debate though, keep it coming and we will try our best to accommodate you all

NED-CAB

[MelanieGiles]

I don't think that anyone is criticising the good work done by the CABs generally on this thread, or that quality of advice and support provided by firms such as the CCCS. From my point of view, it is the way that the commercial sector are portrayed in comparison to the free sector by the media and some creditor agencies as money grabbing and not acting in the best interests of our clients. This sickens me to be frank, when we are delivering real returns to those creditors on a daily basis, and when the very vast majority of our clients see value for money in their respective solutions and are very well advised.

There are some inaccuracies in your IVA information as well - which perhaps portray that IVAs may not be a solution for everyone - happy to discuss these points off line if you want to give me a call.

Debt professionals from both sectors should be working together to ensure that the community as a whole has a wide choice of options, and that standards can continue to be driven upwards.

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles

I don't think that anyone is criticising the good work done by the CABs generally on this thread, or that quality of advice and support provided by firms such as the CCCS. From my point of view, it is the way that the commercial sector are portrayed in comparison to the free sector by the media and some creditor agencies as money grabbing and not acting in the best interests of our clients. This sickens me to be frank, when we are delivering real returns to those creditors on a daily basis, and when the very vast majority of our clients see value for money in their respective solutions and are very well advised.

There are some inaccuracies in your IVA information as well - which perhaps portray that IVAs may not be a solution for everyone - happy to discuss these points off line if you want to give me a call.

Debt professionals from both sectors should be working together to ensure that the community as a whole has a wide choice of options, and that standards can continue to be driven upwards.

Hi Melanie

Some fair and valid points from you as always (along with others)

You know the score with us, always up for a good healthy debate and nothing has changed, we will always fight our corner.

Also thank you for the feedback on the site it is much appreciated, we will give you a call Monday if that is OK

NED-CAB

[size5]

My over-riding concern with these links is that they can point people towards the MSE IVA and DRO forum. Whilst obviously appreciating that NEDCAB cannot be responsible for the content of external websites, it is still nonetheless disturbing as the first thing you see at the top of the page when you follow that link is Martin Lewis guide to IVA's. Quite frankly, it should be removed immediately as it is garbage. It is obsolete, horribly biased, very seriously factually inaccurate and downright dangerous in my own opinion. I have to admit here that there are links on my own organisations website to not only CAB, National Debtline et all but also MSE. This is for general budgeting tips mostly though as he does have some good points to make in that area so fair play on that, but not to take his debt advice.

It is also to be remembered that it is very difficult to directly criticise people that give advice for free, but when it is as bad as this then it must be done. Bad advice is bad advice, even if it is free. I am sure Mr Lewis heart is in the right place, I have no doubt that he genuinely wishes to help, but drivel like that has no place on any public domain, let alone one as popular as MSE. At the very least, Mr Lewis should either qualify in his own right via study and examination in order to be able to dish out debt advice, all other professional posters on here have doubtless had an untold number of long hours of toil to get where they are, or if not then get professional expertise in to help him update this guide to reflect the real world of today and not "Tim nice but Dim" land of yesteryear.

Regards.

[North East Derbyshire CAB]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by size5

My over-riding concern with these links is that they can point people towards the MSE IVA and DRO forum. Whilst obviously appreciating that NEDCAB cannot be responsible for the content of external websites, it is still nonetheless disturbing as the first thing you see at the top of the page when you follow that link is Martin Lewis guide to IVA's. Quite frankly, it should be removed immediately as it is garbage. It is obsolete, horribly biased, very seriously factually inaccurate and downright dangerous in my own opinion. I have to admit here that there are links on my own organisations website to not only CAB, National Debtline et all but also MSE. This is for general budgeting tips mostly though as he does have some good points to make in that area so fair play on that, but not to take his debt advice.

It is also to be remembered that it is very difficult to directly criticise people that give advice for free, but when it is as bad as this then it must be done. Bad advice is bad advice, even if it is free. I am sure Mr Lewis heart is in the right place, I have no doubt that he genuinely wishes to help, but drivel like that has no place on any public domain, let alone one as popular as MSE. At the very least, Mr Lewis should either qualify in his own right via study and examination in order to be able to dish out debt advice, all other professional posters on here have doubtless had an untold number of long hours of toil to get where they are, or if not then get professional expertise in to help him update this guide to reflect the real world of today and not "Tim nice but Dim" land of yesteryear.

Regards.

Hi Mike

Thanks for that.

As you rightly point out we cannot be responsible for the contents of external websites and you are free to voice your opinions with the rest. (we do happen to think that the support on MSE & other sites can be very good though)

Yes, fair point on the order of the links with regard to professional advice etc, we will look at that.

Mike, for the record a number of our advisers have an high opinion of the transparent information available on IVAs via the cleardebt site however this in no way should be taken as company preference as far as NEDCAB are concerned as we are sure you will appreciate (Mike, if you feel the need, go out for a touch of fresh air after reading this

PS - nothing wrong with a bit of light banter every now and then, it helps sometimes.

Anyway thats us done on here today

Have a good weekend all

NED-CAB

[size5]

Much appreciated, we do our best and I reciprocally acknowledge for the record again, as I have done many times previously on here, the sterling work that CAB do.

I also agree that a healthy debate and a touch of banter is good for the soul.

Regards.

[lem]

I have to say that before I found this forum, I had been a regular on MSE for a few years, read a lot of information on there so felt very informed (whether rightly or wrongly) about the various debt options available.

When I first started looking into a solution for us realising after 3 years that we weren't getting anywhere trying to pay off our debts, I had read martin Lewis's IVA guide which he does appear to be very biased against people taking, I do agree that his advice on IVA's appears outdated now, but I do get the feeling that a few years ago IVA's were very inflexible, and to be faced with 5 years of stringency when invariably as we all know circumstances can change from one month to the next, I am surprised anyone managed to complete an IVA, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I do actually personally think that if you have heavy debts, no assets to protect and a job which bankruptcy would not affect you continuing then BR would be a preferable option to IVA, I don't personally think an IVA is suitable for people in these situations, I don't go in for this 'well some people want to pay as much back as possible', while I agree with this is theory, I think for most people facing BR/IVA as an option, they will have been struggling to pay as much back as possible for a number of years and finally reach the stage where they think enough is enough, if we hadn't have had a house to protect or it would have affected my husbands job, we would have gone BR without question, I'm not doing the IVA for the benefit of creditors at the end of the day, I'm doing it to get us out of this mess and on with our lives.

Having said all this, we first approached CCCS last year with their debt remedy, which actually suggested a DMP or IVA for us and offered us a telephone appt 3 weeks later. following on from this, we found this forum, contacted Tina from Mel's firm and she phoned me back the very next morning, I suppose the MSE crew would still look on this unfavourably 'a commercial company desperate for business', but I must staunchly defend Tina and Mel here, at no point during that 2 hour conversation I had with Tina was I ever made to feel I had to make a decision, Tina helped me to explore all our options, with excellent advice, and I still remember the last thing she said to me at the end of that conversation, that she would not call me again, but would leave me to contact her if we made a decision that we wanted to go with an IVA with them.

I can only compare my experience of the CCCS and Mel Giles company and I have to say, Mel's wins hands down, sometimes, you get what you pay for.

[Adam Davies]

Hi

I think it is the media that need educaing regarding debt advice, after all we all give free advice, the costs and fees only occur if the debtor chooses to use a particular solution.

The CCCS have a very good commercial IVA arm but I guess some people consider this a "free" service because the CCCS is a charity and always sign posted by the media whenever debt is reported.

The commercial debt management sector has come a long way in the last few years thanks to the work by DEMSA and the DRF, plus the fact that IP fees have been capped by creditors [ possibly too much ] and I think the sector deserves better press that it seems to receive

Regards

[size5]

Hi Lem,

It comes as no surprise at all to me to hear such glowing praise for Tina and Mel, undoubtedly they operate to very high standards indeed.

I take your point re the evolution of IVA's in recent years, and I heartily concur that where BR is potentially the best option then it should not be feared, but then again I would also expect any reputable provider to make any client fully aware of all the pros and cons of every avenue open to them. IVA failure rate is actually statistically very low, and there have been many threads on here re completion, advice post IVA etc. Given that the nature of any forum is that it will elicit more horror stories/problems than good news then that is an indication of the relative success of IVA's on its own. My gripe with the MSE guide is that it is simply wrong, and the potential undoubtedly exists, due to the inaccurate content of that guide, for someone to take it as gospel and then enter into an inappropriate debt solution, typicallly a never ending DMP, whether free or not, on the basis that they feel they will maybe not fit the criteria for IVA. It should be withdrawn or seriously revised.

Regards.

[lem]

absolutely agree Mike, a DMP for us would have realistically been about 20 years, I am still shocked when I read threads on MSE of people in DMPs for 5, 6 7 years and they are still not paid off, what is the point? the one thing this forum has educated me on and opened my eyes to is that a DMP should be seen as a short term solution to give you some breathing space while either your situation improves or a more formal debt solution can be secured, it horrifies me that people take this route and then a few years down the line either go BR or take an IVA anyway