can the creditors make me sell my house

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sam sam

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Post by sam sam » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:14 am
iva creditors meeting yesterday original iva was for one year using capital in my house for a one off payment. have just herd that the creditors want me to sell my house use the equity and then continue iva for five years while in rented accomadation.my question is can they make me sell my house what can they do if i refuse
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:10 am
Hi there and welcome to the forum

These types of IVA are rarely popular with creditors these days, unless you have absolutely no disposable income to carry on paying. If you do not agree to their terms, creditors can petition for your bankruptcy or continue to harrass you for payment. Which IP firm did you use to put forward your offer, and what are they now advising you to do?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

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insol

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Post by insol » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:02 pm
hi sam sam, unfortunately for you yes creditors can insist. you can refuse. they can then make you bankrupt which means you will have to pay your share of the equity to the Official Receiver. or should you prefer not to go down that route creditors can sue you, obtain a final charging order over your property and then apply for order for sale. you get evicted and they sell the house at a bargain basement price. not an easy decision for you. good luck
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:34 pm
hmmmm, mind those scare tactics...

A creditor who obtains a charging order can obtain a court order to sell off the asset in question subject to the charge, although such sale orders are comparatively rare.

A charging order nisi comes automatically upon application, but the charging order absolute—which is the point at which you could eventually be forced to sell the property has to be a judicial decision. If the judge who hears the case finds that an offer of payment has been made and the money is being paid, he will not usually make the order.


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Last edited by mikebdomain on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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insol

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Post by insol » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:43 pm
hi mike, interesting but it's not scare tactics it's cold hard truth i'm not in the business of being touchy feely there's no point. we know the courts we can use to get the ofs and we use them we do have the odd case maybe 1 in 5 where the DJ grants a instalment order but if you miss one payment or are even a week or more late we will go for an ofs and almost always get it. we have two people employed full time doing ofs work. and they are fairly busy people.
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:57 pm
I agree it's not difficult if; payments are missed or late, or agreements are not kept by the debtor, or where the debtor fails to attend the court hearing.

However where the debtor is making every effort to communicate with their creditors and offers a reasonable payment based on their income and expenditure and sticks to the payment, the DJ is less likely to award the judgement. Especially where the debtor attends court and can evidence the payments.

We are involved in a number of repossession cases ourselves – obviously fighting for the other side…


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Skipper

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Post by Skipper » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:04 pm
Good stuff Mike...THE CO Nisi and Absolute you quoted I never heard quoted here.Learn something today

Let the scales of Justice, Truth, Fairness decide

"Always think outside the box"
Last edited by Skipper on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Always think outside the box"
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:19 pm
we know the courts we can use to get the ofs and we use them
Well there is a lesson here for everybody;

IF a company such as the one Insol works for applies for a charging order against your property - make sure you request the court to hold the hearing in a court near you.
(A fairly standard request) at least that way you will hopefully get a hearing from a judge that will apply common sense and is not known (at least to the applying company) to favour creditors.


FREE ADVICE IS THE BEST ADVICE

LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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Directly Authorised Firm FSA No:313790

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F.P.C 1,2 & 3 qualified
Financial Planning Certificate
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see feedback and testimonials at:
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Please read our Initial Disclosure Document(IDD):
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Last edited by mikebdomain on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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insol

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Post by insol » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:47 pm
one slight point once you have a charging order nisi the dj will invariably grant an absolute whichever court you go to. the order for sale is a seperate extra process that comes later. if the homeowner obtains an order to pay by instalments then pay them if you have trouble meeting the payments apply for a variation order to reduce your payments before you miss one. you would need to pay an application fee for this but better that than the ofs
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:56 pm
I do not agree that the second stage is always granted;

see; http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/engla ... unty_court

http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_factsheets/
charging_orders_in_the_county_court.htm#4

The application for a charging order always has two stages.

Stage one - the interim order

The creditor makes an application for a charging order and the court will make what is called an interim charging order if it is satisfied that you own, or have a part share (an interest), in the property in question. This is not the final order. An interim charging order is usually made automatically without a hearing and a date for a full hearing is set. A copy of the interim order will be sent to you. This should be done at least 21 days before the hearing date set by the district judge. The hearing is for the court to decide whether or not to make the charging order permanent ('Final'). This hearing is likely to be held in the district judge's private rooms.

The creditor will also register the interim charging order as a 'caution' on your property with the Land Registry who should inform you of this in writing. This means you cannot sell the property before the hearing.

Stage two - the final charging order
The second stage is the court hearing in front of the district judge. At this hearing the court will decide whether to make a permanent charge on the property. This is called a final charging order. If you object to a charging order being made final then you should send the creditor and the court written evidence stating why you object. You should do this at least seven days before the hearing. This could be in the form of a letter of objection outlining all the arguments you have for why the charging order should not be made. This should be sent by registered post to both the creditor and the court.

If you do this then your arguments should be taken into account by the district judge at the hearing. You should still go to the hearing and if you do not send any written evidence then it is vital that you go.

WARNING
The court can refuse to make the charging order so you must serve a notice and go to the hearing. If you cannot attend on that date, contact the court for a different hearing date to be arranged. If you do not go the charging order is likely to be made final by the court at the request of the creditor.

ADVICE
If the hearing has been arranged in another court, ask for it to be transferred to your local court. You can apply on an application form called an N244 explaining why you can't go to the hearing, e.g. due to the distance, travel or childcare costs. There is a fee for this.

HOW CAN I STOP A CHARGING ORDER?
The court must consider whether it is reasonable to make a charging order. Under the Charging Orders Act 1979 the court has to consider all the circumstances of the case and in particular:

the personal circumstances of 'the debtor';
whether any creditor would be 'unduly prejudiced'. This means the court has to decide if making a charging order would disadvantage other creditors.
The arguments you can use against the order being made will vary depending on your circumstances, whether you have any other debts, whether you have equity in your house and own your home in joint names or on your own.

These are some of the factors that the court may consider.

Does any member of your family have a disability or serious illness?
If you have a number of debts and making a charging order in favour of one creditor would give them unfair priority over the other unsecured creditors. It is particularly useful if you can show you already have a payment arrangement in place with your other creditors. This would be upset by an order being made. Point out if any of the debts are larger than this debt and if any other creditors have frozen the interest.
Your creditor is supposed to list all the other creditors that they are aware of in the application for an interim charging order.
The court can order the interim order to be sent to the other known creditors but does not have to do this. This means that creditors who may want to object to the final charging order being made will not know about the hearing. You can raise this in your written objections and at the hearing if you think a creditor may be 'unduly prejudiced' by the charging order being made.
Could the creditor have given you a secured loan when you first took out the loan? If they decided to offer an unsecured loan instead, this could be particularly relevant if you have other unsecured creditors who may be disadvantaged by a charging order being made.
There are other ways the court could enforce payment of the debt. You could ask the court to make an instalment order so you make monthly payments you can afford, or an attachment of earnings order so that the instalments would come directly from your wages. This is only useful if you are employed and your employment would not be at risk.


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Last edited by mikebdomain on Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jpj

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Post by jpj » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:29 pm
Sam Sam..did you actually get your house valued,or just guess a price?? Valuers are being very negative at present due to the housing slump..you might find you have less value than you think,and the equity might not look as attractive to your creditors!!
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:03 pm
good point jpj

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LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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Specialising in adverse credit.

Directly Authorised Firm FSA No:313790

CeMAP 1,2 & 3 qualified
F.P.C 1,2 & 3 qualified
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LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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Directly Authorised Firm FSA No:313790
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Financial Planning Certificate
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:15 pm
I see a lot of charging orders these days, and I have to agree with Insol that my experience is they are generally successful.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:07 am
Melanie, to the point of a forced sale? Not in my experience...

FREE ADVICE IS THE BEST ADVICE

LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
Whole of Market Mortgage Broker & Mortgage packager

Specialising in adverse credit.

Directly Authorised Firm FSA No:313790

CeMAP 1,2 & 3 qualified
F.P.C 1,2 & 3 qualified
Financial Planning Certificate
Certificate in Regulated Customer Care
Certificate in Regulated General Insurance
Associate of the Charted Insurance Institute

see feedback and testimonials at:
http://www.leybridge.com/testimonial.php
Check out my blog at:
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Please read our Initial Disclosure Document(IDD):
http://www.leybridge.com/Leybridge-IDD.pdf
LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
Mortgage Broker & Mortgage packager

Directly Authorised Firm FSA No:313790
CeMAP 1,2 & 3 qualified
F.P.C 1,2 & 3 qualified
Financial Planning Certificate
Certificate in Regulated Customer Care
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