CCCS and Bankruptcies?

[MelanieGiles]

I heard today from an industry contact, that CCCS are in the process of setting up a bankruptcy advisory unit as well as doing DMPs and IVAs. It is curious that one who is entirely funded by creditors would be wanting to advise people into going bankrupt. Can anyone see the creditors agreeing to fund the cost of this?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[Adam Davies]

Hi
Maybe CCCS will be charging a fee to "help" people declare bankruptcy ? More likely is that they will put the debtor in touch with a company that will do this and get funding from that company.
regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson and Website Manager

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[Andrew Graveson]

An interesting story this one as it relates to "free" debt advice organisations.

The Bankruptcy Advisory Service produces a newsletter from time to time. Gill Hankey of the BAS was recently awarded an MBE in the Queen's New Years Honours List.

In their January 2008 newsletter they report:

"We were interested to read the article in The Mail on Sunday regarding the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) and its Chairman, Malcolm Hurston. Mr Hurlston contacted us a couple of months before Christmas and advised that CCCS were setting up a bankruptcy division, his opening question being 'how do you make money out of bankruptcy?'

His offer to form a "relationship" with the BAS was rejected.

They were astounded a few weeks later when... "Hurlston issued a press release stating that we (the BAS) would be training CCCS counsellors and handling casework for them!".

Mr Hurlston was "..forced to withdraw the press release".

According to their own website the CCCS is:
"a charity dedicated to providing confidential, free counselling and money management assistance to financially distressed families and individuals".

Presuming this is all correct it would seem that charity starts at home.

Strangely enough, as reported widely by Steve at Myvesta, such "charitable" organisations in the USA lost their charitable status as they were viewed to be agents of creditors.

As I've stated previously there are thousands of people who are well-served by "free" debt advice organisations. Readers will judge for themselves what exactly "free" means for them.




Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[MelanieGiles]

I heard about Gill's MBE also today - and can I say publicly how well deserved this award is. She has worked tirelessly for a number of years to help so many people in desperate need of help, and is never afraid to stand up and be counted. I also gather she is to be a panellist at the next iva.co.uk debate in February, so that should make for a lively discussion.

What a curious set of circumstances, and given the outdated and unrealistic expenditure allowances used by this company and endorsed by a number of creditors, what will they have to say about the Official Reciever's perhaps generous guidelines. Will they be encouraging bankruptcy clients to offer more to their IPAs and IPOs on the grounds of giving clients a better return! Methinks not, althoug maybe I am being a little to cynical this evening.

Catullus is needed for the good and benefit of this particular debate! Where is he/she?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[Kingeer]

in light of these, can anyone inform me if the following services are financially supported by DMP,IVA or BR companies ?

www.cccs.co.uk
www.citizensadvice.org.uk
www.nationaldebtline.co.uk

i have been talking to two of them, and am just wondering if they are what they say they are.

thanks

Rich

[OPTIMIST12]

I would like to see Andy make a formal approach to the CCCS asking them to make a contribution to this forum (a one off contribution or statement if they wish) to answer a number of matters - not least this thread - which have been raised recently.

I have posted many times in support of the CCCS - they set me on the right track in what to do about my debt problems (they agred that an IVA was a definite option) - and were extremely helpful in providing me with detailed information and advice both over the phone and in writing. And I did not pay them a penny for any of this.

I was however concerned to read the article in last Sundays newspaper and would really like to see a response from CCCS to set out their point of view.

[Adam Davies]

Hi
I am meeting someone from the governments Insovency Services next week and will be asking the question regarding CCCS's charity status.
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson and Website Manager

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[OPTIMIST12]

And I am sure that you will be asking them about access to the Insolvency Register too Andy!!!

Should make for a very interesting meeting.

Hope it goes well.

[Andrew Graveson]

Hello Kingeer,

In response to your question my undertanding is that National Debtline and CCCS are creditor-funded.

The CAB is not.

Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[Kingeer]

thanks for that info Andrew

If they are creditor funded, i could find nothing on thier websites to say which creditors.

Because of the charity status, just assumed that they where publicly/lottery funded.

food for thought anyway

Rich

[Andrew Graveson]

Hi Rich,

National Debtline openly lists their supporters on their site and I believe CCCS may do the same.

Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[catullus]

I'm sorry that I haven't been around to add to the debate.

I think Optimist has hit the nail on the head in that the various questions that have been raised merit a head on response from CCCS in order to restore the public goodwill that they truly enjoy.

Sadly, CCCS' track record is such that we could be waiting a very long time. Myvesta website has been asking them to get off the fence for ages regarding the attitude of the banks,they have shown no interest whatsoever in initiatives such as the DRF (which I fear has foundered) and they seem likely to be hoisted by their own petard in stating that "only 3% of applicants are suitable for an IVA" without ever having explained what they consider the appropriate criteria are.

Desparate for revenue they have now decided to offer IVA's, and now, it would seem a bankruptcy service. They'll quickly find out, in the IVA arena,that they are subject to the same level of regulation as Melanie and me and then we'll see if they still think that they can do an IVA all in for £4k over 5 years.

In my opinion, the only way you can do that is by using 2nd rate IP's and 3rd rate staff, which possibly they have already confessed to by stating their inexperience in the IVA market up till now.

That inefficiency and lack of expertise will, however, be masked by a huge referral machine created by the banks who are only too keen to refer debtors to them for reasons of which I can only speculate!

[MelanieGiles]

I am very concerned as to work quality for a fee of £3k to £4k over a 5 year period, which may mean that there will be little IP or senior management involvement in the ongoing process. Does anyone know what their hourly charge out rates are? And is there any evidence that banks are referring customers to them for IVA's? Do you know how many they have under their belts to date?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[catullus]

No idea Melanie.

Not that many I suspect and I believe that the whole plan was hatched over a year ago in order to put further pressure on IP's to reduce their fees.

What I think has now happened (but I'm guessing) is that they've got their hands on an IP and think that they think that the IVA market will be a cash cow for them. Dream on at those rates.

Did you know that when they referred IVA's out to IP's, which I understand has been negligeable recently, that they charge £1000 referral fee?

As per Myvesta website. I didn't. Very charitable, I think not!!

[MelanieGiles]

Well we know who was doing most of that work, and it doesn't surprise me one iota.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp