Council Tax and house repossession help!

[jane.l]

I have contacted the OR today and they say I am liable and have to pay it, I am so confused now, don't know what else I can do [:(]

[zoe]

Jane
If they refuse to deal, then yes you are liable, you will need to negociate with the Council concerened. THey will go through statement of means with you income/expenditure to see what they believe you should pay.
If you are up to date with your present council tax this will help in negociations, however im sorry to disappoint you but they will see this as a priority debt (after mortgage) and will want as much as possible.
im sorry i know its not the answer you were looking for x

[ianmillington]

Jane

I am firmly of the opinion that this problem has arisen solely due to the negligence of the Official Receiver in failing to disclaim the property. You should not be having to deal with this at all in my opinion.

Ian

[ianmillington]

Hi Zoe

I appear to be in a minority of one here so perhaps you could clarify for me how someone who is neither the owner (as the OR became legal owner) nor the occupier can be responsible for post-bankruptcy Council Tax.

I am baffled by this[?]

Ian

[zoe]

Did the OR actually transfer title of the property?
Z

[ianmillington]

My reading is that the OR simply sat on his hands.

[zoe]

If the title did not pass to the official receiver (from what Jane has advised they didn't) then under the hierarchy of liability she is responsible for the tax as she is still the owner. I understand what you are saying - the OR should have dealt with this but the Council will act within the Law, and if Jane appeals with the OR then she will be liable until the OR admit liability which could take forever!

[ianmillington]

Under Section 306 IA 1986 the OR takes ownership automatically. ("Immediately on his appointment taking effect" "without any assignment, conveyance or transfer"). Jane had no control whatsoever over the process, hence I can't understand what is going on.

Ian

[zoe]

If that is the case then the OR is liable, however Jane will need to proove they are the owners of the house. I thought the OR just registered an interest in the property on Land registry so it couldn't be sold but you are the expert there Ian!

[jane.l]

I am glad I am not the only who does not understand what is happening!

I can see the council's point of view, if I was the owner of the house, but at the time of the period they are charging for, I was an undischarged bankrupt. My feeling is that if Nrock had got their act together, as they said they would, the house would have been repossessed long before this became an issue. Plus, the OR has not had any dealings with the house as there was no equity in it!


I came across a website of council tax guidelines whereby the property is exempt if left empty by a bankrupt, but the lady at the council did not know anything about bankuptcy so could not help me!


What do I do now??

[chris.g]

But surely if the OR hasn't carried out their duties correctly and thoroughly Jane, and anyone else in this position, should be able to push for the error to be corrected?? If Jane's OR made a mistake then surely they should be held responsible for their mistakes instead of just leaving it to the br to deal with it, ex-br in Jane's case.
Our OR seems to be very inexperienced, when ever I've contacted her she quotes from the manual and uses conveniently ambiguous words like 'should, usually and probably'!!! doesn't give us the greatest of confidence in her I must say!!!

Just a thought Ian, if the house is in negative equity, like in Jane's case and is repossessed after br but before discharge, does the mortgage provider have to pay the £1 nominal charge+fees to the OR??

[zoe]

Yes there is such an exemption it is a class Q, the property must have been unoccupied and unfurnised. You just need to proove your bankruptcy (which can be easily done)

[ianmillington]

What passes to the OR is the bankrupts legal and beneficial interest in the property. The Bankrupt does not even acquire any interest in the property by virtue of post-Bankruptcy Mortgage payments (S338 IA 1986). All the Bankrupts interest passes to the OR and any post-bankruptcy mortgage payments might as well be rent.

The ORs rights include the bankrupts right to redeem the mortgage. However, the interests of the mortgagee come first so if the mortgagee takes possession they don't have to pay the OR anything (unless there is equity of course in which case they have to pay that to the OR).

This is interesting:
According to Rule 6.46(2) of the Insolvency Rules 1986 "the Official receiver shall send notice of the making of the (bankruptcy) order to the Chief Land Registrar, for registration....."


Ian

[jane.l]

Yes, this Class Q is what I thought might apply to me but the council said they know nothing of bankruptcy, should I write to them and explain and send them a copy of the bankruptcy orders???


I am just REALLY fed up now!

What with this new bill that I have to pay, the hassle from Picture and Nrock, why did I bother going bankrupt?

The blooming tax credits still taking payment from my account when they said they wouldn’t, I have had to open a new bank account today and am going to close the other one as I was informed by the bank that the Inland Revenue are part of the AUDDIS scheme, whereby, once given permission, they can enter my bank account and take payments as and when they please, even though I have cancelled the DD, they can just set another one up! They have had £300 off me so far! WELL, NO MORE!

Now the hassle with this council tax bill, we will now be £40 per month in deficit every month if the OR gets his IPA, ooh, the irony if we had to go bankrupt AGAIN, I have only been discharged 2 weeks, hubby is still bankrupt, can a bankrupt be made bankrupt AGAIN??

Ignore my ramblings, I feel I am slowly going insane
[:I]

[ianmillington]

Chin up Jane - I think there might be some progress. I'm not a rating expert but would I be right in inferring from Zoe's last post that there is cause for optimism?

I assume you put the council on your creditors list and the OR will have written to them at the time? Yes, send copies of the bankruptcy orders to the council by all means. It can't do any harm.

I really am sorry to have witnessed all the grief and hassle that you've been having on this and other issues.

Ian