Debtmatters, Grant Thornton and Payplan

[J-DOUBLEYA]

I heard a rumour today from a very reliable source in GT that DM have squirrelled their fees away up front from the monies paid un by the IVA clients before selling the book. This is the reason why GT & PP are reviewing all of these files !! As a rule I dont subscribe to gossip but the sceptic in me cant help wondering if there is any truth in this.

[MelanieGiles]

Well I am sure that they are not doing this just becuase they fancy drawing extra fees for the sake of it! And creditors are perhaps left bearing the cost of that.

[J-DOUBLEYA]

I agree, but equally they are not going to run these Va's at a loss or for the ggod of the nation either. If this info is correct and frankly you are far better placed to offer an opinion on the rumours credibility than me, it makes sense that the new T&C's are varied to allow some fees for the services that these companies are now going to provide.
I just hope that the amount of people that are disaffected is limited..

[MelanieGiles]

I don't comment on rumours, simply facts. My original post at the beginning of this thread is all I have been made aware of. Both firms will, I have assume, carried out detailed due diligence before agreeing to acquire these portfolios, and would be unlikely to have purchased the business if they felt that they were going to incur losses.

I too hope that there is not too much impact on the profession generally, as it just sets IPs in a poor light and most of us try our best to do a good and honest day's work!

[J-DOUBLEYA]

Hey Mel, you give your clients a rolls royce service but dont be under any illusions, DM is a factory and they dont now and didnt then provide anything other than the equivalent of a scrapped trabant [V].
I admire your professionalism and what i believe is your personal enthusiasm for an integrity that is not always present in this cut throat industry. You set your standards very high, i applaud them but I am not daft enough to believe others aspire to them ![:)]

[MelanieGiles]

There is good and bad in your industry as well, but I guess we have to live with that at the end of the day. Apart from the inappropriate advertising, what do you think drew so many people to this firm in the first place, as we rarely see positive comment about them on this forum?

[J-DOUBLEYA]

I would guess that they simply played the numbers game Mel. From their perspective, good advertising, hot referrals and volumes. I dont think they give a fig for the individual, they just go kerching !! as each IVA gets voted through.
Your right, there is good and bad in the industry and also there is downright terrible too. I have said this before, i HATE the factories because there is no consideration of the personal circumstances. I am not a firm fan of PP or GT because i think they are factories themselves but not in the same BAD league as DM or DFD. I heard DFD referred to as Debt Free Disgrace and think this is very appropriate.

An IVA was intended as a viable alternative to Bankruptcy. A solution for clients who have debt issues and need a remedy. To qualify as an IP is no easy feat, what a shame that some have given in to the temptations of a fast buck and business demands at the cost of the integrity to the spirit with which an IVA was intended !!

Its getting a bit late for me to be dwelling on the morals so I am away for the night.

Fight the fight Mel, I applaud your efforts and that of all those who contribute but, the industry has more than its fair share of rotten apples, like DM. GT and PP are big enough to 'swllow' the costs burden after buying the book from DM, they dont need to pass these costs on to those most in need of the help, not if they really subscribe to the same code of ethics as you do.

[greenback]

Well I have just come off the phone from DM and this is what they had to say:

I asked why I had not received a letter outling the transfer to PP and their explanation of the process.

DM firstly read what the letter says to me and it was a basic letter to say they are transferring us to another IP and that as they use the same bank for payments we receive there is no need to rearrange the standing order as from 'March' any payments should go automatically into either PP or GT accounts.

I have asked for a copy of this letter - it is worth noting from what I was read that there were no indications from DM that there would be a request for increase in fees from the new IP and no charges were indidcated in the letter just a possible change to a varible IVA to bring them inline with the policies of the new IP.

I asked as I have not defaulted on my IVA do I have to change the terms if I am not happy with the new arrangements?


They confirmed if like me you have a clean payment history they can not make you change the original terms and fees to be taken and that the transfer has already gone to the courts and has been approved so all cases are with the new IP's as from March onwards.

The advisor then went on to say that up until thursday they were not aware that the new IP's would ask for an increase in fees and that it was their understanding that only slight changes would be made to run in line with the new IP's current IVA procedures.

The main thing that stuck me as quite worrying was that the advisor indicated that DM ran their IVA's under a strict 60 month payment term and if a customer could not pay a certain month they could then extend this by a another month on the original IVA end date.

Apparently Payplan who I have been assigned to have all their own present cases running up to a 72 month plan so that if customers run into payment problems or if the creditors are not happy with the level of returns on their debt and what they will get back at the end of the term they can request the IVA runs up to another year.

No that is something PP did not outline on their recent letter to me and did not verify when I spoke to them.

So DM customer beware if you sign this agreement and have the option not too i.e you have a clean payment history be aware the creditors could request you keep paying upto another 12 months on the new IVA terms.

Also the advisor agreed that creditors could use a new IVA proposel to add extra clauses and terms to you current DM policy.

This is of cause on top of the extra 10 percent charge for fees that these new IP's want.

I asked about PP and what DM knew about them?

The answer was brief and simple - not alot accept they have been in the business a long time.

I asked how Payplan apparently being a charity run free service can ask for extra fee costs?

The advisor could not give a reason other than up until thursday they were under the impression no extra fees would be asked for and to speak to my new IP about this.

She advised me to get full details of what a variable plan really means and if my current terms are better stick with them.

Next stop Payplan but I need to get more information together first as the only time I spoke to them was when I received this letter and was stressed out so this time I intend to be ready for them with in depth questions of my own ;+)

[troubled_waters]

Hi guys, I'm all caught up in this change over too. What a pain.

The first curve ball I got was when I got a phone call one evening from a women at Payplan asking for my verbal confirmation that I agree to switching over. I just said I did not know what I was agreeing to yet as I had not got their paperwork and would be in touch when it had arrived and I'd been through it.

The paperwork duely arrived, but I am concerned about this statement on the 'Clients Authority to Act' form which I'm supposed to sign:

"I also herby consent to my Creditors and Payplan discussing rescheduling my debts, and varying the terms upon which repayment shall be made to that Creditor, also on behalf of each and every Creditor I may have."

Now is it just me or does that give permission to do just about anythig they want! I am upto date on my payments and nearly 2 years in. I guess some will say this is just a standard statment and if I'm upto date nothing will change, but this seems just to open ended to be signing. I'm already tied into one of those horrid clauses about releasing an unknown amount of equity in the 4th year, so goodness knows what else they might be thinking of tagging onto this thing.

On the subject of equity release, everyone has been saying that if Payplan increased their percentage it is only the creditor that will be affected. But if come the 4th year, creditors have received less than they expected because Payplan have been taking more, won't that just mean I have to remortgage for a higher amount to make up the difference and keep them happy?

[goulda]

I was with Debtmatters and now Grant Thornton but ny modifications do not appear to be the same as above.

The 12 modifications, if I have read them correctly, will not directly affect me one iota.

What do others who have had their IVA's transfered think?

[MelanieGiles]

I only have some limited information from the Grant Thornton side, I am afraid, but it does seem that Payplan are suggesting a different approach.

[goulda]

One thing I am not sure of is;

My IVA has already been extended by 12 months(Chairmans Report) should the need arise but if I pay 60 payments(as stated in my original proposal) does that conclude my IVA.

If I understand correctly the extra 12 months are for those who have taken holiday breaks or defaulted during the original term of the IVA and not for the likes of me who are paying monthly and on time with every payment

[MelanieGiles]

If the IVA was set to run over 5 years, then it will conclude at that time. The extra year is there simply to help if you need to catch up with any missed payments.

[goulda]

Thans Mel

[greenback]

Umm well thats would you would think would you not and hopefully that would happen but... if you are siging the new terms then you are giving your creditors another opportunity to add extra clauses, restrictions and if there not happy that DM have collected enough of the oustanding debt from you I'm sure they will want more money paid in and try to get the term length extended.

But as there are only a handful of DM customers commenting and as there a thousands effected each case could be different - the main to remember is to look after number 1 ;+)