Effectiveness of IVA firms debt strategies querie

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Post by IVA News » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:42 am
Campaigners seek scrutiny of offers to rescue struggling homeowners

· Effectiveness of IVA firms' debt strategies queried
· Groups warn of potential mis-selling scandal

The government has failed to monitor a potentially serious mis-selling scandal after a surge over the past three years in the number of overstretched homeowners advised they could avoid losing their homes if they signed an individual voluntary arrangement (IVA), according to anti-poverty campaigners.

Many homeowners have lost their homes despite assurances that the agreement offered protection from repossession.

Campaigners believe the sheer volume of agreements sold by so-called IVA factories using unregulated call centre staff has inevitably resulted in mis-selling. Last year saw a record 107,000 insolvencies, 44,000 of which were IVAs, most of them sold by IVA factories.

IVAs are an alternative to bankruptcy that allow people with debts to agree a five-year deal of fixed repayments with their creditors. IVA companies, many of them advertising on daytime TV and internet search engines, promise to reduce the level of debt to be repaid, sometimes by as much as 75%.

They have often been accused of encouraging people with large debts to agree an IVA rather than an informal deal with creditors. Whereas informal arrangements can be agreed with no charges by debt advice charities like Citizens Advice, IVAs can generate fees of up to £7,000 for the companies involved.

Some insolvency industry experts believe that 30% of IVAs fail before the end of their five-year term and, despite paying their creditors for several years, homeowners are forced to file for bankruptcy.

In the first half of this year 14,000 properties were repossessed, a 30% rise on a year ago, according to figures from the Council of Mortgage Lenders.

Campaigners want the government to produce its own figures detailing the number of voluntary agreements that fail. The Insolvency Service, the government agency that oversees the insolvency industry, publishes figures on the number of IVAs sold each quarter. However, it is unable to publish figures matching IVAs that fail with the period in which they were sold, leaving the industry in the dark over the failure rate.

Malcolm Hurlston, chairman of the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS), said the level of spending by firms selling IVAs distorted their ability to offer independent advice.

"There is bound to have been mis-selling of IVAs," he said. "When you have £1m a month being spent on advertising by these firms, that must mean they will encourage people, many of them in a desperate situation, to agree an IVA when there is a better solution."

The insolvency industry trade bodies agree that there needs to be more transparency. Peter Joyce, director general of the Insolvency Practitioners Association, said he had spent most of the year lobbying the Insolvency Service to publish figures on failure rates so that it became clear mis-selling was a problem.

The Insolvency Service said it would begin to monitor how IVAs were sold and the number of agreements that "varied" from month to month. But this information will not be published until next year and will not include figures showing the failure rate of IVAs sold up to the end of 2007.

A spokeswoman said a committee of industry representatives met for the first time in August 2007; one of the items on the agenda, she said, was to consider how to make progress on the issue of better "market information".

She said: "A sub-group was set up specifically to identify what market information is needed and, of this, what is already available, what could be obtained quickly and easily, and what additional information is desirable in the longer term."

Source: guardianonline.co.uk

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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:45 am
Yet more adverse media comment about my profession again. When are these journalists going to realise that we are not the cause of people's indebtedness - that firmly lies with lender and borrower. Anyone who borrows money that they cannot afford to pay, and is a homeowner, runs the risk that their home will be affected. Harsh but true unforuntately.

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kpw

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Post by kpw » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:05 pm
I also agrre with Melanie.
As an advisor in the debt industry and having had considerable experience if being in debt and managing a solution out of it with a professional company, so that I am now debt free, there is no divine right that means you do not have to be in debt. For whatever reason and there, are many good ones, debt happens and largely the borrowers and lenders have to take responsibility for that. Thank goodness the law allows IP's and DMP's to assist people, properly regulated through the 1986 Insolvency Act or the Debt collection guidance , the consumer credit act and the banking code which requires crediors to assist their customers experiencing financial difficulties. There will always be the need to regulate and make the industry accountable but people have a right to use professional services that assist them, without the continual media frenzy that it can be or should be done for free and with no cost. Debt problems just like other life problems require hard work to solve and often require life changing decisions. It is not IP's or DMC's that cause thm but they can cerainly help in any solution.
Last edited by kpw on Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

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Post by mikebdomain » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:24 pm
I also agree with Melenie although I am starting to think that the IVA industry could do with a bit more prescriptive regulation. Some of the stories we are hearing regarding IVA's and DMP's remind me of the mortgage industry pre FSA regulation.

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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:54 pm
Hi
I would like to see the insolvency industry regulated in the same way as the mortgage industry.
I totally agree with Melanie that IPs are not to blame for peoples debts,"they didn,t lend it or spend it" but can we honestly say that IVAs have been used correctly over the last four/five years ?
We can blame the unregulated DMP companies but every IVA has to be presented by an IP.
Food for thought.
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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:57 pm
Mike

Insolvency practitioners are subject to extremely rigourous regulation - indeed most of my time is spent filling in checklists and ticking boxes to suit the regulators - a necessary part of our job I accept.

We are one of the most tightly regulated professions which exist in the financial services industry, but like all professions (yours included) some bad apples will always be prevalent.

I suggest that your comments are probably better directed towards the unregulated side of the debt management industry, where anyone apparently can call themselves a debt advisor without experience or qualification.



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kpw

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Post by kpw » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:25 pm
Hi
Whilst I have the utmost respect for the IP profession and the work that they do, and I have had an excellent service provided to myself, the process that people go through before reaching IP's, does have to be questioned. I have come across numerous cases where people have been advised or told,through a telephone interview, that they meet the criteria for an iva. Closer inspection of the paperwork sent out by the company confirming the telephone details and asking for documentation,has been seriously concerning. I fail to see how proper advice can be given in these circumstances and people can be misled, especially when we know just what a serious step embarking on an iva is. As i said, I feel the process of qualifying prospective iva clients used by many of the iva providers is a problem. If such proceedures were tightened up then a lot of the problems could be avoided.
 
 

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Post by mikebdomain » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:31 pm
Melenie

Again, I do not disagree.

Anybody dealing in the finance industry especially organisations that deal with consumers’, needs to be highly regulated and monitored. Something really needs to be done soon, regarding the debt management industry and self declared ‘professionals’ giving financial advice to consumers’.

The mortgage and general insurance industry was highly regulated prior to FSA regulation, but standards were fragmented due to there being various regulators, with differing standards.

The single point of FSA authorisation and regulation means advice in paperwork and details on fees is now very prescriptive and standards throughout the industry are rising, we still have someway to go before all the cowboys are found and kicked out of the industry, but it is happening quicker now than ever before. New ‘conmen’ would today, find it VERY difficult, if not impossible to gain FSA registration, although some will always find ways around it…

My point on regulation for IVA’s is regarding the paperwork terminology and centralising regulation, so all IP’s have to adhere to the same prescriptive paperwork and statutory advice – in particular: the fourth year clause and perhaps (duck) fees.


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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:26 pm
But you are probably both aware that the DTI/BBA are about to announce measures to deal with all of the issues that you both raise and that as a profession we have all been working on standarising procedures for IVAs for about 18 months now.

I accept the points about volume processing firms, but again there are good and bad. It is a fact of life that sometimes you only hear bad news, and perhaps more focus ought to be spent on conveying the merits of the IVA procedure, as many are proposed and supervised under extremely professional care by the IPs who are appointed to them.

If I have one beef about the profession, it is those large firms where IP's do not have ultimate control of the businesses - and this can cause conflicts of interest over commercial and regulatory issues. Whilst we are all regulated as individuals, I firmly beleive that not only should the individual IPs be subjected to the current stringent tests, but also the firms themselves in terms of best advice and procedures. I am sure this is also on the regulator's cards!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

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lily

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Post by lily » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:43 pm
Surely the whole thing about debt solutions would be better applied if the public were much more informed about what should happen, before they even meet an IP.

The good bad and ugly companies out there will not be able to influence a well informed debtor, however stressed and harrassed s/he is.

Knowledge is power for the debtor, the lack of knowledge is power for the 'bad apples'.



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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:09 pm
I agree Lily - education, education, education is what is needed here.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
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lily

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Post by lily » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:16 pm
Thank you Melanie


At last I've had a brunette moment.

lily
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Post by mikebdomain » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:30 pm
[:D] LOL [:D]

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Post by Skippy » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:45 pm
I hope to have one of those one day!

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Post by catullus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:12 pm
This thread didn't half cheese me off.

IP's do a bloody good job. The overselling doesn't come from the IP's generally but the unqualified "debt advisors" who plague our industry and whose staff are paid on a results basis.

At the risk of upsetting a few posters on this board why on earth do clients pay money to a middle man only to be referred on to an IP. If I want a loaf of bread I find out where the baker is and go there.

In our industry we've got people wandering the street asking where the baker is and being told "I'll tell you if you pay me the price of a loaf, and then I'll hold your hand as I take you to the baker"

What is all that about and yet people pay the money thinking that they are getting value. Most of these advisors wouldn't know the difference between an IVA and IVF.

And why does this happen? It's the power of their advertising that does it, not the IP's. If it was the IP's who were overselling, there wouldn't be a need for middle men.

And don't get me started on the double standards of CCCS mentioned in the article. I see they didn't take the opportunity to comment on the outrageous fee structure pproposed by TIX

End of rant!
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