failed to reach any agreement about IVA

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rogers

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Post by rogers » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:07 am
Unfortunately, having been in discussion with a certain IVA provider for several months now I have failed to reach any agreement and, it is probably fair to say, reached a point where I no longer have much confidence in the service this firm provides.

One aspect that I am uncomfortable with is that the firm will not say what fees it charges. My concern is that it may at some point seek to increase its fees and disguise the fact by putting the ‘blame’ on difficulties with creditors.

The real sticking point, however, is over what level of monthly expenditure I should be allowed on certain items. The firm insists that it has no flexibility in discussing these thresholds because it says they are dictated by the Government.

After rent, my biggest expense is - as you might expect - food. The firm uses a ‘housekeeping’ category, to include food, toiletries and other incidental household expenses. It says that the monthly cost of all these things together, as dictated by the Government, is £160. Well, for anyone reading this who manages to live on that budget (and the firm tells me it has ‘never been a problem before’) I salute you. In my case, as a civil servant I am fortunate enough to be able to use a subsidised office canteen where a properly balanced meal costs around £4 (without a pudding, which I accept is a ‘luxury item’). With breakfast and a light evening meal on top of that I would reckon on spending on average £7 per day on weekdays. Weekends for me are more expensive, but even assuming no extra cost that comes to 31 x 7 = £217 on food alone. I actually reckon on spending at least £10 a day at weekends, which covers basic provisions such as bread, milk, pasta etc, bringing a total monthly food bill of £241. I should be interested to know, what should be considered a ‘fair’ monthly allowance for food, please?

I spend about £15 per month on toiletries and washing powder, and there are always other ‘incidentals’ ranging from a new kettle, plates, mugs, light bulbs, duvet-covers and so on which it is difficult to put a figure on, but for which I think there should be some sort of separate allowance. Last week I spent £13.60 on prescription charges. Is there any way of covering this sort of unpredictable but very necessary expense within the terms of the IVA? How much should I be able to reckon on spending on toiletries, please? How much on ‘incidentals’?

The allowance for clothes that the firm uses is £30. Right now, I need a new pair of shoes and will struggle to get a decent pair for that price. A fairer allowance I think would be £45-£50. I would be grateful for others’ opinion/experience on this – what would be a reasonable amount for clothes?

The most difficult category I find is entertainment. The firm allows £50 per month for entertainment unless part of that is covered by the cost of broadband internet connection, in which case the broadband is listed separately (maximum £15) and the entertainment allowance then goes down to £40. It says that it is not obliged to allow anything for entertainment at all, and that some companies don’t.

Part of the problem as I see it is in deciding what should be considered entertainment. For example, I have a 30-40 minute train journey to work and always try to get a paper to read on the way. That works out at around £8 per month (40p per day, 5 days per week). I occasionally get an evening paper, but regard that as a bit of a luxury because there are free papers available (I am not on a line where I can pick up a free morning paper). I also normally get a Saturday paper (60p). The Sunday paper is 90p, which I don’t propose to include because I see this could be regarded as a (over-priced) luxury, too. However, my monthly paper bill - excluding evening and Sunday papers – still comes to £10.40, which is slightly more than I would spend on a haircut. Should I be able to incorporate my paper bill in an IVA, please?

Another difficulty I have is that part of what may be termed ‘entertainment’ is to me ‘my life’. My passion is music, whether listening to it at home, experiencing it live, or writing, recording and producing my own material, as I have been doing for more years than I would care to remember. Although this can be expensive, I do not believe that it need be prohibitively so if approached in a responsible way. Whilst I of course accept the need for constraint, I confess I do find it difficult in this case to accept that my interests should be entirely written off as forms of ‘luxury’ without the need for any discussion at all. Is this a reasonable expectation, please?

I would be very interested to know other people’s experience on covering the broad category that is ‘entertainment’. Can visits to the cinema/clubs /live gigs (which, again, do not have to be very expensive if restricted to only one per month) be listed separately to socialising with friends or spending on CDs/downloads? Can any of these be listed at all?

I really had not intended to write at such length, however, there is one final point probably worth mentioning. The firm uses one quite generous allowance - £100 for travelling. The reason this is generous is that the £100 applies after all deductions from salary have been made (I checked!). In my case a 12 month season ticket loan is deducted from my salary on a monthly basis, so the £100 ‘allowance’ is on top of that. Is this common practice? I can only presume this allowance really is in response to some sort of government guideline, because it is not in this firm’s nature to be generous in its assessment of living costs.

With apologies for the length of this message - which gives a flavour of the issues I face contemplating an IVA as a single person (goodness knows how much more difficult it would be with a family to support, and in that very narrow financial sense I count myself as quite fortunate). I should be extremely grateful to anyone who feels able to respond to any of the questions raised above.
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:51 am
Hi Rogers, I didn't have any allowance for entertainment in my IVA - I have posted my IVA allowances in my blog.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:55 pm
Hi Rogers

Your posting is interesting to read, with regard to me seeing what other practitioners are doing out in the marketplace. Firstly you do have to appreciate that some sacrifices may well have to be made if you wish to propose an IVA to your creditors. Creditors will expect to see you tightening your belt, and making a real effort to repay them as much as possible.

I do not believe in "allowances", and there is no firm government guidelines - merely a document produced by the British Banker's Association which is currently being reviewed and is beleived to be too frugal.

The majority of my clients (single persons) spend the following:-

Housekeepin - between £200 and £250
House Maintenance - £30
Clothing - £50 to £75 depending upon job
Miscellaneous - £50

Hope this helps - and if you are not happy with your current provider, I suggest that you seek an alternative opinion.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Sensible77

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Post by Sensible77 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:09 pm
Personal expenditure is always a hot topic. As Melanie says, if you are serious about sorting your debts out, you need to make sacrifices. It is true to say that over 5 years you can get up to 75% of your debts written off, but it is usually about 50%. With respect, I feel that you want to get your finances sorted out, but are conscious that people will notice your cut backs and will ask why. I had to cancel Sky, a leased car, return a lovely rented TV that was replaced with a portable TV as well as many other incidentals such as buying lunch. I now take sandwiches to work. I took the long term view that in 5 years I will be sorted financially. I have told no one that I’m in an IVA. I only have a small social circle and, although I’m sure people suspect something, no one has asked me outright. With regard to your IP’s fees, I used Payplan for my IVA and they told me what they would charge and it is noted in the proposal and in the Chairman’s report.
 
 

susanc22

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Post by susanc22 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:59 pm
I understand what you are saying Rogers and by the sounds of it, i am wondering if we are dealing with the same company.
Me and my partner are in the early stages of an IVA and we are finding it extremely difficult as my parents live with us and we pay all the bills, including our £500 food bill, but our IP is saying that the creditors wont take this into consideration

Dont give up hope!
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:23 pm
Hi Susan

I am afraid that your IP is correct in saying that your creditors will not expect to see you supporting your parents. Do they have pension income they could give you by way of a contribution?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

susanc22

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Post by susanc22 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:59 pm
Hiya Melanie,
Unfortunatly they only have a very small pension.

At the moment we are changing most of our shopping to the "No frills" brands to try to cut costs....yum yum!

Susan x
 
 

Brownowl

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Post by Brownowl » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:53 pm
I am at the stage of agreeing expenditure with my IP and I am allowed £400 per month for myself and 2 teenage girls, I have nothing for entertainment, house maintenence or clothes but have a £40 per month "contingency" allowance but as I am on 3 medicines which I get monthly that takes up nearly £21 of the contingency !!! Rogers you re in a far better position than I am and I have 2 children to support
 
 

Sensible77

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Post by Sensible77 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:06 pm
Brownowl, you make a very good point. Fortunately for us, there is only my wife and myself to take into account in my IVA. How people with children manage, I can't imagine. Unexpected expenditure must be a lot worse where children are involved.
 
 

rogers

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Post by rogers » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:16 pm
Many thanks for all the comments. It is clear to me now that there is no such thing as a 'one size fits all' arrangement that will work for everybody. Of course I absolutely agree that sacrifices have to be made. I know several people in worse positions than me, who have lost jobs or have medical issues and are experiencing difficulties with benefits and so on. I know what difference it can make just to have a few pounds in your pocket. Personally, one of the most difficult aspects I expect to find when I hopefully do get an IVA arranged is that I shall no longer be able to help out my friends as I have been doing. That is going to be hard. I am going to have to explain to them the reasons for this. In other respects I think the IVA will actually be quite liberating, because there is also an expectation from other friends to be sociable and come out buying rounds of drinks all the time, which I clearly can't afford, and I think the IVA will help me to exercise the discipline I need with regards to this.

I do believe it is important to try to find the right balance and be honest enough with yourself to know what you can or cannot achieve and what level of spending you can realistically maintain. That is part of the reason I want to see what other providers offer. I must say, however, that I am disappointed that the firm I have been talking to has deliberately mis-represented Government legislation to try to drum up business. That is not something that gives me confidence to entrust them with my finances. I now look forward to finding out about who else is out there...
 
 

kandh

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Post by kandh » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:59 pm
My husband is allowed a total budget of £870 for all expenditure (food, cleaning, pets, car maintenance, insurance, petrol, travel etc). (The £70 is for clothing, worked out at £10 each). My husband and I have 4 children (between the ages of 8 and 3) and yes we have unexpected costs on a weekly basis, all of which have to come out of this budget. My husband also has another son from a previous relationship who is physically disabled and in a wheelchair. He pays a separate maintenance payment each month but again any incidentials for extra equipment or extra help comes out of this budget.

Usually if we have a tight week because the children need something for school we cut our weekly food budget to try and save that few extra pennies (£45 for a weekly shop is the lowest shop I have ever managed - maybe able to get this lower now as youngest is out of nappies at night now [:D])

Holidays etc consist of visiting my parents for a few days and days/evenings out are few and far between (I have PAYG mobile with orange so tend to use the 2 for 1 cinema offer). Instead we tend to go for walks and picnics (in the car if raining).


I cant say that it is easy because its far from it but given the choice of "free" spending with a credit card and "now", and I would chose "now" without hesitation. Learnt the hard way but it was a very valuable lesson learnt and one I dont want to have again.

K
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