Hi, ok this is my question in brief:
Made a full and final settlement following being made redundant in June 2012.
Case not closed due to ongoing PPI's
June 2013 the company doing my PPI closed my case having completed and recieving PPI payments which went to IVA.
August 2013 still have not recieved completion certificate instead 4 more letters to sign for chasing PPI's for things not on my IVA and some that financial arrangements that were completed and all payments settled in 2006/7 some 4 years before I became in difficulties and decided to apply for an IVA.
Answers however small or detailed much appreciated
It's pretty standard, all ppi seems to be counted as an asset so is expected to go in to your iva. I have had to sign for a Barclaycard that I had in 1998, and was paid off a year or 2 later to be included. The offer was only £8 something so not worth the effort really. I have my completion certificate now thankfully so I'm just letting my ip do whatever they want with ppi.
I am with debt free direct. All the legal jargon is very difficult to understand in regards to PPI claims made by an IP. I have just been reading guidance notes by the Insolvency Practitioners Association and other regulatory bodies and I cannot make head or tail of it in relation to my terms of agreement. One comment though I have pasted below:
It has been argued by some that the proceeds of such claims
would be available as ‘after
acquired assets’
(sometimes referred to as ‘windfalls’)
.
The terms of the ‘after acquired
assets’ clause in the
R3 and
Protocol Standard Conditions however, refer to assets that
are
acquired during the course of the arrangement
.
It would be difficult to argue that PPI mis
-
selling claims existing prior to the commencement of the IVA fall into this category
Now the PPI's that Debt Free Direct are pursuing are prior to the IVA and I cannot determine if my IVA proposal was an 'all assets' or 'defined assets' would this have many any difference at all
.
I find this absolutely outrageous. It is nothing more than blatant profitering dressed up us IP responsibility to get as much money for the creditors.
Most of these PPI companies are owned now or have had significant investment from IVA companies which means not only do they take 25% of the IVA pot they take tupically 39% of the PPI refund.
Its almost as bad as a mafia protection racquet. The Regulators need to take swift and decisive action in my humble opinion.
Of course i might be wrong in my ascertains here but it is certainly the perception of many and we all know that perception is 9/10ths of reality.
Yes it definately would newdidit. Ask your IP firm to confirm what type of IVA you believe you have, and also to confirm the basis for them making that decision.
Cheshiredebt - IP firms are not allowed to profit from PPI activities. If they are entitled to a share of the PPI commission, then this is an asset of the IVA and not payable to the IP firm. Please be sure about your facts before posting derogatory remarks about my profession.
Melanie this is an email I forwarded to DFD and the response I received regarding previous PPI claims being made.
Firstly my email sent on March 30th 2013
"I am writing in regards to my IVA with you. I paid a full and final settlement in April 2012 and have been waiting for my Certificate of Completion since this date. The reason for this delay has in part, according to your service, due to PPI claims being made via Equity in Finance and also something to do with VAT recovery. You have already received over a thousand pounds from Barclaycard in the form of a PPI refund and we are currently awaiting Santanders refund. I have received from Santander a proposed refund of just over £300. They are requesting a copy of my signed IVA before they release funds I believe. Having reviewed the paperwork that accompanied this letter is a breakdown of where the PPI refund has come from and it would appear that the refund is against a loan account which was settled prior to my IVA and not included on my IVA. Not only this but I have also questioned via the IVA forum if this is in actual effect a correct procedure as I have already made a full and final payment. The response I have received from Melanie Giles IVA.co.expert suggests that as my Resolutions to be voted on stated that this is a 'FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT' the PPI is not relevant to the closure of the case. I have attached her actual response below.
So you have the wording "full and final settlement of the debtor's obligations in respect of the original proposal assets". In my book that means full and final settlement, and therefore PPI is not relevant to the closure of our case - but you may wish to take independent legal advice on this.
I would therefore like to request that this PPI refund is to be forwarded to myself and I would also be in a position to receive my Certificate of Completion.
I await your response to this matter"
This was DFD reply:
"Thank you for your email regarding PPI.
A PPI Claim is an undisclosed Asset which comes into the arrangement at 100% as per Assets Section 2.10 of the same proposal:
Should I, during the continuation of the Arrangement, receive any windfall/inheritance, or any property which would in the context of a bankruptcy be regarded as After Acquired Property (see the Standard Conditions), I will notify my Supervisors as soon as reasonably practicable and such property will be made available in the Arrangement up to the value of Creditors claims in full, plus interest, plus any outstanding expenses.
In regards to the Variation for the Full & Final settlement offer that was accepted by your creditors, I would like you to refer to the Variation Report section 1 (also attached to this email):
The PPI Position is being reviewed in cooperation with the debtor. The value is unascertained and included for a nominal value of £1.”
As the PPI is covered in both your Original Proposal to Creditors and your Variation for a Full & Final settlement offer, we will continue with any claims and all funds will be paid into the IVA at 100%."
Now this would suggest to me that the guidance I referred to in my previous post is relevant to these 4 new PPI I have just received as they were prior to my IVA.
Is this any clearer, because its not really to me would I be advised to still contact DFD to ascertain what type of IVA I have ?
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles
Yes it definately would newdidit. Ask your IP firm to confirm what type of IVA you believe you have, and also to confirm the basis for them making that decision.
Cheshiredebt - IP firms are not allowed to profit from PPI activities. If they are entitled to a share of the PPI commission, then this is an asset of the IVA and not payable to the IP firm. Please be sure about your facts before posting derogatory remarks about my profession.
Hi Mel, whilst IP firms are not allowed to make a commission on PPI reclaims, or if they do then they become part of the IVA, IP's can and still do make a revenue stream from PPI reclaims.
One of the larger IP's detail within their annual accounts that they received “substantial revenue has been earned from consultancy income in relation to advice given to a third party” they also show that “These services are paid for by the estates of the respective IVAs”.. All they are doing is changing the income from being a commission to a fee and then it does not become part of the IVA and they get to keep it…
This same company even details within the same accounts that the high level of unemployment coupled with the economic climate is extremely favourable and consumer indebtedness is likely to grow which will benefit their business…
Ultimately we are all aware that an IP is a business, they are not doing this to be kind but they are doing it to make a profit, they will also try and make as much fee income as possible, if this means looking for other areas where a fee may be taken then they will do it.
PPI mis-selling claims are not after-acquired assets, they are assets which existed at the time you entered into your IVA. Two completely different things, and important to make sure the claim is dealt with correctly. It may not be an asset of the IVA, depending on the IVA terms - and you should again query this with your IP.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles
Newdidit
PPI mis-selling claims are not after-acquired assets, they are assets which existed at the time you entered into your IVA. Two completely different things, and important to make sure the claim is dealt with correctly. It may not be an asset of the IVA, depending on the IVA terms - and you should again query this with your IP.
Nickjohn
Which firm are you quoting from
Hi Mel, To try and help people with what type of IVA terms they have where about's within their paperwork will it say what assets are included.
I know my IVA only lists my property as an asset, and only details what is to happen with "after acquired" assets yet GT still say that PPI is covered within their obligations to creditors that they have and must be investigated. As you will appreciate it does get confusing when the paperwork I (or others) may have says nothing about existing assets yet we are told that they are automatically covered within terms we know nothing about..
The IP firm I am quoting from is the Clear Debt Group and is information within their annual accounts (publicly available information).
Last edited by nickjohn on Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
And there it is.....PART V1 Arrangement Assets
14. After-aquired assets
14(1) Subject to following sub paragraph, the supervisor may claim as an asset of the arrangement any after-aquried assets. Any such asset will be subject to and be an asset of the arrangement.
Well I believe I may have found mt answer and the moral of this post is "Do you understand your IVA???"
This is not an excuse or even a sympathy vote because as I have said before it was me that got into the position in the first place but it did get me thinking. Did I fully understand what I was getting into, did I ? I consider my self to be an educated person but I do remember when I came to the point that my finances needed to get under control I just wanted it sorted I just wanted to stop the letters stop the calls stop feeling so sick and stop the worry the IVA seemed the answer and I think I thought once I signed that was it the worry had gone. Everything was done over the phone apart from one initial visit from a very nice lady who just really wanted figures if I remember rightly. But at the end of the day I'm not so sure that my worries are over and those feelings have all returned. I am so close and yet so far I really really cannot begin to tell anyone how important (to me at least) finally getting that certificate will mean and being off that register.
Sorry pressed submit before I finished, I just wanted too add I think that when you are in a part of your life that you need financial help you are also in an emotional state and maybe your thinking is not that clear you are just looking for a way out. Yes we are all adults and we sign off so many bits of paper MAKE SURE YOU READ THEM PROPERLY.I did mine on my own and due to me own failings did not discuss it with any one why??? because I felt embarrassed, a failure and actually felt I had let myself and others down so I kept it all to myself and still have. That is my problem I am just going the long way round to say don;t do the same trust someone to share this information with get them to read it because their head may be clearer than yours
Hi Newdidit. Most, if not all, of us are reasonably well educated, however, some, at the time of realising the depth of the mess we were in at the point of entering an IVA are floundering somewhat and we depend upon the expertise and guidance of those we appoint to look after our interests.
One measure of a good IP is the extent they LISTEN to our problems and CHECK our understanding.
We cannot - and should not - blame ourselves for a lack of understanding. Let's face it, even among IP's opinions differ as to how certain aspects are to be treated. Some are blatantly and simply wrong, others merely interpret things differently.
If the experts are unable to sing from the same hymn sheet, how can we ?
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
