Grant Thornton - EIC Letter

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MerlinL14

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Post by MerlinL14 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:04 pm
"But GT must have a very good reason to outsource and in doing so distance themselves from the claims" I believe that there are no IVA companies who are doing all this extra PPI work themselves. Most are not versed or staffed enough to make the claims within a timely manner, which would just lead to even more posts that closure is taking too long. I think that GT and the other IVA companies are having to suffer this PPI pain in the ar** fiasco while trying to balance the sanity of their clients. Sometimes the credit due is clouded by the mess that the Banks have left this country in. Our IP's didn't start this mess, but have to try and sweep it clean with it seems little respect from us. Maybe threads should be directed at the Banks over fraudulently mis-selling us insurance that wasn't worth a fag paper! I really do understand the frustration in not getting closure as soon as we would like, but also accept that it isn't the fault of the IP's at GT or any other IP. Reality sometimes isn't the answer we NEED.
Last Payment made 04/12/14. Completion Certificate 25/7/15. IVA company GT. No Issues
 
 

Heretoday

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Post by Heretoday » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:07 pm
The banks lost in court on the 20 April 2011, the UK courts ruled in favour of consumers.
From that date there has been the opertunity for iva companies to instruct third party's to reclaim miss sold ppi.

There is no valid excuss in this world why some IVA companies have waited until now to investigate, especially for those that have either finished or near completion of their iva payments.

The big bully boy companies are making individuals lives hell and they should be ashamed of them selves!!!
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
 
 

nickjohn

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Post by nickjohn » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:14 pm
The issue under discussion at the moment is over bank / credit card charges not PPI.

One of the ironic things in all of this is that at the start of our IVA journey the IP is working on our behalf helping us to put forward a proposal to ease us out of our financial burden. Yet once the IVA is agreed the IP's position changes whereby they become the administrator of the IVA, on behalf of the creditors so are now chasing excessive charges made by their own clients..
 
 

Heretoday

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Post by Heretoday » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:16 pm
Sorry if I went off topic, joys of reading and posting from a phone, but same applies in that they should not wait until the end or near the end of an IVA to look at this!
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
 
 

allancsn

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Post by allancsn » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:18 pm
Hi Heretoday

Can I look at that latest judegement please - I'm now in month 67 and its nearing six years since my creditors -all credit cards - got wind of the IVA and closed my accounts.
Still annoyed a a. bulk letter and response on IVA forum
b.delay in getting me off the Insolvency Register
 
 

Heretoday

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Post by Heretoday » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:25 pm
I am about to enter month 78 and still no CC from Cleardebt!
The info about the banks losing their case can be googled, I don't have the full info to hand but can certainly look for it when I get back to a PC.
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
 
 

olympic_torch

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Post by olympic_torch » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:01 pm
I'm all for paying back as much as i can, but this just seems to get more messy by the day.
It's rather like employing a private detective to prove your wife had an affair with the milkman 10 years ago.
I'm not a negative poster on the whole, but the open statement above from Karol makes as much sense to me as the original letter.
Everyone on here has a unique and individual story as to why we are where we are. Most of us ignored our situation for long enough, then took the honourable decision to deal with it.
I paid what i could, it's not everything, but it's the best i could manage.
I am 3 months into a closure process that should take 6 months on average.
Titter ye not mrs.
Aucto Splendore Resurgo.
IVA accepted May 2007.
Extended by 12 months in lieu of equity March 2012.
F+F offer accepted May 2012.
C of C received August 2012.
IVA dropped off credit file 24th May 2013.
 
 

Muggins

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Post by Muggins » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:28 pm
These companies are taking an average of 40%!! Nt bad eh!!! The ips are not allowed to do this work so have to work with these companies to obtain any outstanding monies!! I'm sure that I read if ips close an iva it will be a whole lot more difficult to reopen in order to pay out to creditors!! It's a money spinner for all involved I believe which ever way it's sold to us all :(
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:31 pm
It is actually a process to repatriate monies from a process which was wrong back to their rightful owners. If this involves someone who is subject to an IVA, then those people have to expect that the monies be rightfully paid to their creditors.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

nickjohn

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Post by nickjohn » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:10 pm
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles

It is actually a process to repatriate monies from a process which was wrong back to their rightful owners. If this involves someone who is subject to an IVA, then those people have to expect that the monies be rightfully paid to their creditors.
This maybe a simplistic view but;

In this instance what is happening is a third party working on behalf of the creditors representative (the IP) is asking the creditor for money they have taken in charges from us so they can then take a fee, of say 25%, the balance of which can then be given back to the creditors.

Surely this money should, as you say, be repatriated to its rightful owners, whoever paid it in the first place, and then a percentage of this paid into the IVA fund, as with an annual bonus or wage increase.

Ultimately the original money paid out was wages / bonuses as well, earned by the original owner, and had they not had to pay it out in the first instance then they would have had use of 100% of it which could have led to a completely different outcome in the first place..
 
 

allancsn

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Post by allancsn » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:36 pm
Sorry Melanie - and this should never be taken personnally please

But this is about the trust between an IP and their client.

We took out an IVA, perhaps niavely, but always in desperation believing there would be a supportive relationship between debtor and IP only to find that this relationship was superceeded by that between the IP and the creditors - OK we learned to live with that.

And I am all for maximising the dividend to creditors but I do wonder when the overarching agenda appears to be gain maximum commission and not ensuring that either creditor or debtor receive the best outcome. Most of my debts have long since been written down, been sold on or have just been lost.

And I still do not understand why an IP nneds to pass collection of potential funding to third parties, who will take a percentage of any monies reclaimed.

My business head keeps saying if you can make money do it, if you think it's risky pass the risk to someone else and let them deal with the flak while still taking any profit.

At the end of the day I just want what I thought I bought into - to be treated as an individual- and to be eventually to be left alone to move on.

What I don't want are things to drag on un-necessarily and my IP to do things purely for more profit.

I suspect my creditors don't care about another 1p in the pound if they are lucky and are looking for close down as much as me.
 
 

nickjohn

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Post by nickjohn » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:12 pm
Perhaps one of the other posters could comment on this but would I be right in thinking that once the IP takes on the supervisor role then their fees are payable as a percentage of monies received, therefore the more money they can get into the account each month / year then the quicker they achieve their fees..
 
 

Muggins

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Post by Muggins » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:23 pm
I totally agree Melanie!! Back to their rightful owners!!! Not some fat cat company who cream off 40% plus!! Still maintain its a money spinner for all concerned!! Sorry just my opinion!!
 
 

nickjohn

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Post by nickjohn » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:31 pm
I guess the thing I never really appreciated until recently is that the IP is there at the start working on my behalf to organise the paperwork etc to help me set up an IVA. Once this phase has passed they become a "supervisor" working for the creditors to realise the monthly payments.

I was always of the naive opinion that they were always there to help me..
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:34 pm
I completely accept that if the PPI had not been mis-sold in the first place, then some people may not have needed to revert to a debt solution at all - although I suspect that this would be rare in most cases. Not sure I understand nickjohn's point about wages and bonuses paid out, however, can you clarify the point you are making please?

Turning next to the relationship between IP and creditors - I can of course only speak for my own experience and direction provided to the people who work for me. Clients are made aware of the IPs duties very clearly, both in our meetings, subsequent discussions and the proposal documents themselves. I do not think that there can be any grounds for misunderstandings therefore. The role of the IP is not to take sides at any time in the process, but to realise the assets bound under the terms of the IVA and pay those proceeds over to creditors who have agreed to write off, often substantial, sums of money - from people who originally started out with the full intention of repaying their debts (or so I assume).

The reason that IP's are using claims management firms, is that we are not licenced not are we experienced to carry out the sort of investigations required under the legislation. In my own case this is in no way motivated by earning commission from such companies - I have never earned a penny from commission for referring clients in my whole professional life, and do not intend to start doing so now. The use of a claims company is to facilitate the process for my clients, not make it difficult. My clients are all provided with the opportunity of pursuing their claims directly, should they so wish, but many tell me that they do not want the hassle of this nor would know how to go about it. Others have successfully made their claims, and happily accounted to me for the monies received and in these cases creditors have received a larger share. The use of claims management companies is, however, supported by the majority of creditors for the reasons stated above.

It is correct that these days most insolvency practitioners are paid on the basis of a percentage of monies realised, with the prior agreement of our clients and the creditors. I feel that any suggestion that IPs are undertaking the exploration of PPI claims deliberately as a way of earning extra money is pretty insulting and misguided. I think that most of us involved in the process currently probably wish the words PPI had never been breathed, as well as VAT for that matter.

It is not our choice that we are forced to be paid on the basis of a percentage of realisatons - this is the making of creditors themselves. Our fee income has been drastically cut over the last few years, to a level when I often wonder why I continue to remain involved in this area of insolvency. I personally favour the setting of fixed fees or fees based on time properly spent - this is the way we are generally remunerated in every other area of insolvency in which we practice, and would at least remove the constant bickering about IP motivation on this forum and no doubt other popular discussion points.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
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