Surely BE would keep the refund or why would they have brought the case in the first place.
If they are not entitled to keep it then what would have been the point of the case. I'm not sure if the IPs think they can retain a percentage of the refund as additional fees because it is a "windfall" but I think that should not be the case for two reasons:
1. I don't believe this is a windfall. A windfall is surely additional income that falls into the hands of the debtor and needs to be paid into the IVA. This is just a retrospective correction of monies incorrectly charged to the IVA by the IPs (albeit that at the time the VAT was correctly charged). Charging fees on the recovery of this VAT is effectively double charging;
2. In order for HMRC to make the refund, they have to be satisfied that the claimant will not be unjustly enriched as a result of the claim, i.e that they will pass the refund onto the persons who were incorrectly charged in the first place. I would have thought that an addional fee levied by the IP on the refund would amount to unjust enrichment.
Just my thoughts, which are probably wrong as I'm certainly not a VAT expert, but I'd be interested to hear Melanie's views on this.
Hi, I have just come on to say that i recieved a phone call from Karol today informing me of the progress of my IVA completion and the situation that Grant Thornton are in regarding closures and the VAT issue.
I would just like to thank Karol for going above the call of duty and in the short time I have been with Grant Thornton I can honestly say that Karol has been very helpful indeed, so credit where credit is due I say.
I dont really understand the whole VAT issue therefore do not wish to comment on it but through what I can gather, Blair Endersby (my original IVA company) started it all, which I feel is quite ironic considering the poor service I recieved from them compared to Grant Thornton.
I just feel Grant Thornton and especially Karol deserve a positive post in what must be a difficult time for IPs involved in closures at the moment.
Thankyou.
Nice post and good to see something postive for GT and Karol.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
Having read this thread from top to bottom it would appear that Mel and others like her are trying to make some sense of this mess, i personally would certainly vote for the following:
Grant you a Certificate of Due Completion once all payments into the IVA had been made?
Remove your case name from the IVA register?
Confirm that any windfalls you may receive after effecting practical completion would not be caught by the terms of the IVA?
Creditors would update your credit files to confirm the IVA had concluded.
All i can say at this moment in time is good luck Melanie and other IP's such as yourself who are trying to resolve this in a satisfactory and timely manner.
Om shanti, namesté, good luck to all who are embarking on the IVA journey, it isn't always an easy one but the outcome is the best.
IVA COMPLETED August 2012, received Completion certificate 18.4.13.
Well I suppose a statement from GT on here is *something*. Thank you for that. However, it is not good enough though. What about the many clients who aren't aware of this site and are wondering what the delay is in completing. I am passionate about customer service and feel that a massively important issue such as this should have been communicated to all clients whose accounts are awaiting closure. It was only through one of my odd popping on here moments I even became aware of it.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by orchid5
Having read this thread from top to bottom it would appear that Mel and others like her are trying to make some sense of this mess, i personally would certainly vote for the following:
Grant you a Certificate of Due Completion once all payments into the IVA had been made?
Remove your case name from the IVA register?
Confirm that any windfalls you may receive after effecting practical completion would not be caught by the terms of the IVA?
Creditors would update your credit files to confirm the IVA had concluded.
All i can say at this moment in time is good luck Melanie and other IP's such as yourself who are trying to resolve this in a satisfactory and timely manner.
I think I was quite lucky in that my case was closed before this saga, thank God.
I think if I was in your shoes right now I would have been happy with the above, the major concern I would have being over the windfall clause being kept open indefinatly whilst this was all being sorted out followed by getting my details off the insolvency register.
There is not much that can be done in terms of credit files anyway really until the 6 years are up, though there is concern here if you're in a 6 year IVA instead of a 5 year like I was.
I agree with the option though of loaning the VAT money to the IP to pay creditors to expediate the conclusion of the IVA and then once the refund has been given this is returned back to them instead of the creditor. If this was a option then surely it would be the best solution for all including the creditor who does not have to wait for HMRC to pay out.
We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start. All that we're asking in return is your cooperation.
Having read many posts about this VAT issue, I have to say I still don't really understand it all. But it seems to me to be very unfair that some IPs are closing cases whilst others are not.
I was very lucky, I made a f&f payment in September last year, I received my certificate within abiut 3 weeks and was off the register about 2 weeks after that.
If ClearDebt had made the decision to keep my case open til the VAT issue was resolved I would be extremely unhappy, for me (and probably for most people) it would be like being in limbo for the forseeable future. So the option Mel outlined earlier, if possible, sounds like a fabulous chance to be able to move on and the IPs still being able to do whats right.
I made my last payment to GT back in May 2011 and still waiting for my closure documents and now told that they can't close it because of this VAT problem. I'm very frustrated by this because I still don't know why I stand.
Hi Vernon - that's awful! Could you ask GT to issue you with a letter releasing you from further obligation to the iva re windfalls, bonuses, overtime etc. You have after all, complied with the conditions to which you agreed.
We recently posted on the problems which had arisen from the VAT Tribunal decision that Nominee and Supervisor fees should not be subject to VAT, and referred to the guidance from our regulator on closing cases which was issued as a result:
"Where possible, cases which would otherwise be due for closure should be kept open where a claim has been or is to be made either by exercising the discretion usually included in a proposal or by seeking a variation. This is because a Supervisor is likely to have more extensive powers in an open case and could therefore deal with the issue more easily. As this appears to be a proper exercise of the Supervisor’s powers, criticism would be unjustified."
We have been working hard with our legal advisors and regulators to get clarity on these issues. Having reviewed the position we do not consider that, where cases are being kept open simply to deal with the VAT refund, we would have to do anything other than distribute these monies. We therefore believe there is no practical reason for keeping cases open simply to deal with the VAT refund. Therefore we have made the decision to recommence closing our clients' cases.
We believe that this approach will help those clients who have met all of their obligations to achieve quicker closure of their IVAs.
Excellent news Karol - let's hope all the others follow suit!!
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
