Here is my story

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Bob

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Post by Bob » Mon May 28, 2007 2:32 pm
Good day everyone. I simply canno believe my luck in finding this website. I have seen more good sensible advice and learned more about IVAs herein the last day and a half than I would ever learn from my IP.
Here is my story. I was very proud to have set up my own training company in 1999 and was delighted with it's moderate success over the folllowing years. We delivered professional training in First Aid and other related Health and Safety areas. The great thing about my training was to learn time and again that as a direct result of the training recieved, peoples lives had been saved. There are people alive today, directly as a result of the training someone had from my company. Of course I was proud.
I got to the stage when it was obvious I needed to expand and I took on an empty unit, converting it into a dedicated training centre. That unfortunately was my downfall as the cost of the conversion had been grossly underestimated and all my resources were stretched too far. I used up all of my own personal resourses even to the point of cashing in my endowment policy and having to stop all other direct debits etc, icluding life insurance etc in an attempt to stay afloat.

I engaged the services of a businss strategy consultant (let's call him Tom - not his real name obviously) to advise me. His early assessment was that my company had the infrastructure of the training establishment and a decent portfolio of training programmes to be successful, but that it lacked the capital to meet ongoing payments and to effectively market the busiess. Had that been avaiable then the company had a very bright future. Tom's responsibility was to progress a development plan to raise the capital but somehow managed to drag his heels over the ime he was with me, fobbing me off with plausible excuses. Finally came the crunch when he had a meeting with a financial recovery consultant who both agree with grave concern on their faces that the only way forward was for me to go into voluntary liqidation. This happened in August 2004.

By this time my personal position had spiralled downward and as I had given personal guarantees against several of the finances used to carry out the development of the training centre, I was also pointed in the direction of IVA. The IP was introduced to me by the above mentioned Financial Recovery Consultant. Up to this point I had never even heard the term IVA and to say that I walked into it blindly would be a huge understatement - I knew absolutely nothing at all about what to expect or about what to avoid. All seemed to go quite well and Tom assured me that he would endeavour to resurect the trainig company and retain my services as training manager at a salary of £30,000p/a. I had the usual meetings with my IP whose only non financial comment to mee was that I had been stupidly naive. He then set about arranging the proposals and agreed to exclude the family home as I have five children (three of whom are currently in full time education)and on the basis of my promied £30K salary, I agreed to a monthly £500 to the IVA. At the final meeting hovever, one of the creditors insisted that my home be taken into the equation and that in the final year of the IVA I would have to find the equivelant of 50% of the equity. Ihad to pay extra tio have a valuation done on the property but the creditor refused to accept it as true, relying instead on figures poduced by the online 'Down your Street' service. Never oncedid the IP challenge the motion and rubber stamped the amendment to the proposals, without even explaining to me what was happening.

I recall sitting in his office feeling absolutely awful, completely bewildered whilst decisions about my future were being made without reference to me. So shell shocked was I,that I simply signed everything I was told. Somehow, niavely, I expected the IP to act to some degree on my behalf. I understand the legal position of an IP in so faras he acts on behalf of both creditor and debtor, but let me assure you I never felt more alone in my life. If you askd me an hour after I left that meeting, I could not have explained to you just what had gone down. But I did know that my immediate futere was no longer in my own hands.
The training company was resurrected under a different name (I now realise it was phoenixed)and much of the funding that should have gone to my former creditors under the bankrupcy was in fact hived off to become setup capital for the new company. So with money owed to me (and my creditors) now paid into Tom's new company, set up in the nice new training centre that I started and went into bankrupcy and IVA for, I was offered an post of training manager. I never did get that £30k and for the first 18 month or so I averaged about £1000 per month. Pressure on Tom raised the wage by the introduction of a bonus system.
On the personal side, I have felt terrible over thr 4 years or so that this matter has been going on and for two years, I literally dod not have more that 2 or 3 hours sleep at night, on any night. I contemplated suicide on several occassions, though I know I would never do it, it has sometimes been the only possible light at the end of the tunnel.

My blood pressure has rocketed out of all proportiion and notwithstanding the medication (which I can't afford)throughout all of 2007 has been at 'severe hypertension' levels. How long it will last before I have a heart attack or a stroke I simply do not know. but I do know that either is inevitable.

My IP has written to all creditors suggesting he stops my critical illness insurance as ot does not reflect good value for money for the creditors. In the event of my becomming seriously ill or dying then he will convene a meeting to discuss what to do. If I felt that he would recommend settlement in such event I would wholeheartdly agree with him as I could really do with the £62 per month I pay out on that insurance (perhaps I could pay to a life policy or endowmwnt to cover my mortgage)but without such indication I have had to say no I have asked him to let me write to all the creditors pointing out my prediciment or indeed for me to be allowed to go back to the court for a review of the current situation and I await his reply. I am sure, like previous replies from him it will be burusqe, rude, to the point and will say, 'you agreed the arragement, you keep to them or I will bankrupt you' Indeed I am thinking just how bad would tha be - be now be bankrupt. I know I've paid £6000 per anunm and am in my 3rd. year of 5, but in year 5 thereis no way that I will be able to raise my 50% of the equity, other than by illegal means(bank robberies etc (joke) or by winning the lottery.

The fabric of my home continues to deteriorate with windows needing replacement, complete re rendering, there is a full length crack in my kitchen that we can see daylight through etc. and indeed it will be even worse in an other two years time. The greatest worry I have with all of this is the prospect of this potential forced sale over my family's head. That is the single biggest stress factor that retaind my blood pressure at such dangerous levels. If I could re negotiate the terms to exclude the equity, that would be paradise.
Incidently, I left Tom's training centre at Christmas as I could no longer stand his lies and deceit and am now working as a free-lance trainer but I do need more engagements so if you know any body looking for training....

I have not been able to open a business bank account so I know I am oing to have difficulty with the tax man when he wants to see my returns as all my earnings are paid into my wif's and my joint personal account - What else can I do about it?

I am pleased to learn that Tom is currently being investigated by the police over his effectively 'stealing' through fraud an other business. Look like I was not the only one to get stung by him
 
 

scaredkez

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Post by scaredkez » Mon May 28, 2007 3:19 pm
bob i want to welcome you to the forum, there is a lot i would like to say about tom but unfortunately the forum would not allow it to be printed, what a horrendous story, is there no way you could ask for your dealings with him to be investigated, i am sure if they were it would all be brought out into the open, i can only empathise with your situation, i cannot offer an advice, i truly feel you have been taken for a ride and hope you can get back on your feet and start again.
take care, try to take it easy, easier said than done i know, i hope aka tom, has a very cruel financial downfall and you get the last laugh.
kerri

Please view my blog at: http://scaredkez.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Please view my blog at: http://scaredkez.blogs.iva.co.uk/
 
 

Soulgrowth

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Post by Soulgrowth » Mon May 28, 2007 3:39 pm
Hello Bob

I sympathise to the nth degree with you. I am in a similar, not the same position in that a vast majority of my debt over the years had been brought about through trying to be enterprising and looking after my own family ( I have been a single parent of four children for sixteen years) by setting out to run a family business to provide employment for my daughter who had just had a baby and my other daughter who is diabetic and finds it difficult to hold down employment of her own (she is now living on incapacity benefit) ... the first year was great ... how was I to know that Gordon Brown would raise interest rates and the second year would see turnover drop by over half ... and continue to fall.

For myself, I have developed my own career along the lines of lecturing with The Open University in Psychology and, more importantly working in the local community as a Humanist Funeral Minister. The latter includes taking funeral services across the age spectrum and I am often called upon to take funeral services for young children and small babies.

I have been in a successful IVA since last October 2006 but the past came back to haunt me a couple of weeks ago and my daughter fell behind with the lease payments for the business premises whilst still trying to battle against the economy which is not at all conducive to a gift a card shop now as it was four years ago ... I have told her to wind her business up, to get out before it takes two of us down, and I will take the force of the possible forcing into bankruptcy that is most likely to ensue ... but to be honest, my bereaved family's are the most important thing to me nowadays and if it takes bankruptcy to enable me to continue working with them ... then so be it.
I buried a thirteen month old baby last week ... this is only money.

Good luck ... I have found a great local company of IPs who are advising me at the moment and they have alraedy come up with some novel solutions to the predicament. I wish you the same.

Debbie
Debbie
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 pm
Hi Bob

Thank you for sharing your IVA story with us on the forum. Stories like yours continue to sadden me about the way some professionals operate, and go to show how important it is for everyone to be absolutely sure what they are signing up to before they enter into IVA proceedings.

If this involves taking a day out to visit your IP personally, make the time! I doubt that anyone would seek medical or legal advice from an unknown person over the phone - so why commit the next five years of your life in such fashion.

Bob, if you are not affording your IVA contributions, have you thought about making your creditors an offer of full and final settlement from the equity in the property, or even formally varying the terms to benefit from reduced payments?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

chris_

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Post by chris_ » Mon May 28, 2007 4:17 pm
Hi Bob,

Like mine, your IVA has been a result of putting everything into your business and not having time to think properly about tomorrow. My problems were caused by two customers going bankrupt on me at the same time and leaving me with a big tax bill I couldn't afford to pay. The sense of injustice you must feel over what has happened is something I can understand.

BUT (and this is the only thing that matters) your health and your family should now come first.

I have gone through the same despair, and I know exactly what you mean when you described how you felt when your IVA was being set up, with people talking in some kind of foreign language of modifications and asset realisations that you just nod your head and sign your name.

Believe me you are not alone and hopefully you will see that by reading the posts on these forums.

I would still be in a state of perpetual despair if it wasn't for the advice and support from other forum members, and in particular Melanie who has been and continues to be in my view a pillar of strength to us all.

Read the posts, ask as many questions as you feel relevant, never lose sight of the important things in life, and then in the clear light of day decide on a course of action.

We are all here to help, but at the end of the day the decisions have to be yours, make them only after you have a good grasp of where you stand NOW.
The time for looking back has been and gone, for the sake of your sanity and that of your family you must now look forward.

Chris.
 
 

freelili

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Post by freelili » Mon May 28, 2007 5:11 pm
Hi Bob

I just wanted to say, sorry for your predicament.

Your blood pressure tablets are essential do not skimp on the cost of them, to put yourself in danger over this, not worth it, you are too precious to your family. Please take them and take care.

I know its hard but no amount of money is worth your health or your life.

LILY

fly me up to where you are beyong the distant star, I will wish upon tonight, to see you smile, only for a while, to know youre there, a breath away is not too far, to where you are.
LILY

http://freelili.blogs.iva.co.uk

I asked God for an answer, I have to live with his reply.
Exsisto an angelus quod planto quispiam sentio melior.
 
 

aguise

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Post by aguise » Mon May 28, 2007 5:21 pm
Hi Bob just to echo Lily
No amount of money is worth your health and familys happiness. There will be better days and there will be a solution. Ask all you want, come on for a moan if you want, there will always be someone to answer you and moan with you.
All the very best

Ang
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Bob

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Post by Bob » Mon May 28, 2007 6:30 pm
Hello again, Thanks for the comments and the messages of support. The problem with writing such a long posting is that we lose sight of the real issue - but hey it did feel good to get it off my chest.
I have three questions that I would like advice on
1) Can I independently of the IP petition the creditors for an amendment to the arrangemtnts by having the equity of the family home removed.
2) Can I, again independently of the IP go back to the court and ask for a review, with a view to having that condition removed and
3)Notwithstanding the payments I have already made @ £500 per month, would I be better off to consider bankrupcy myself now rather than have to wait 'till the end of yr.5 only to have the forced sale of my home as I have no way to raise my share of the equity?
 
 

Bob

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Post by Bob » Mon May 28, 2007 6:35 pm
Sorry but there was a piece missing from the last post I sent. I also wanted to say that I am awfully impressed with the way that all you people out there are willing to give up your time and effort to help others. It really is encouraging and I feel humbled by your kindness. Please keep it up, you are doing great work.
Again Thank you
Bob
 
 

chris_

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Post by chris_ » Mon May 28, 2007 7:39 pm
Bob,

Just to touch on something Melanie said earlier, is the equity in your home now, enough to make a full and final settlement, and could you borrow this amount(ie re-mortgage) ? - you are paying £500/month to your IVA now and could you not put some of this towards a mortgage?

Also, will 50% of the equity in year 5 actually be required to pay the creditors? - you only have to pay them what you owe + IP costs - what level of debt and equity are we actually dealing with?

Also, as has been mentioned on these forums before you could settle your IVA with a full and final settlement which is a lot less than you owe if you can persuade your creditors it is in their interest to do so.

Your IP should put your proposals to your creditors. It is up to you to instruct them to make variation proposals on your behalf, and they should put them to your creditors accordingly. If you have been in your IVA over 2 years you should be able to at least get your creditors to listen with regards variation proposals.

It is a question of making any proposals attractive enough that your creditors can be persuaded to accept them.

Others know more than I on equity issues as I don't have any ! (I rent), but it is a frequently discussed issue.

Chris.
 
 

gimmewine

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Post by gimmewine » Mon May 28, 2007 8:28 pm
Hi Bob

Your post generated anger here but also a fair measure of curiousity so I have a question for you. If your Training Centre would have been allowed to continue trading albeit subject to administration, could you have recovered your financial position in short to medium term ie 3 to 5 years?

Reason I am asking is that companies, like individuals can look at a range of options to deal with financial commitments. With sound business forecasts you may have been able to avoid liquidation and if that is the case the advice given my Tom was not appropriate to your circumstances. Professional bodies don't like that sort of thing and quite apart from that, self employed have to insure themselves (Public liability) against getting it wrong. I'm sure IP's can comment better on things like Company Voluntary Arrangements and that, but if you were given bad advice, you may be able to pursue Tom yourself.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon May 28, 2007 8:29 pm
Bob

You cannot act independently of your IP whilst in an IVA, so if you wish to put forward a variation to the original terms they will need to be propose this for you. The issue regarding your property equity now and the level of your debts, together with amounts you have already paid and fees charged by your IP are paramount in us giving you further advice. Please post these details as soon as you can.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Mon May 28, 2007 9:32 pm
Hi Bob, I can't add anything to what the others have already said, but I just wanted to say keep strong and please think of your health and start taking your blood pressure tablets again. No amount of debt is worth risking your life for.

Please keep posting to let us know how you are getting on, even if you just want to have a rant or a moan.

Good luck.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

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tracy.h

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Post by tracy.h » Mon May 28, 2007 10:41 pm
Hi Bob
I work for the NHS and advise my patients everyday to take there medication for blood pressure,as if its high the risk of a stroke can be a real danger.
If your GP has placed you on medication then as you know you will have had tests to access your condition and treatment is not offered willynilly,its given to prevent further problems.
Please reinstate your tablets as with all the stress you are under you will not do yourself any favours long term to ignore the advise you have been given to sort this problem out.
As the others have said nothing is worth your health,especaily not money it is the route of all evil as you have sadly found out to your cost.
You are doing all you can to rectify this situation,your family need you,im sure regardless to what happens they would rather have you the person they love than nothing.
Be strong Bob hang in there.
Take care

Tracy
 
 

Bob

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Post by Bob » Mon May 28, 2007 10:47 pm
Right, I've been collating the figures that you require Melanie. Unsecured creditors £70.400, dividend I believe 32p, Fees 15Dec 2004 - 31 May 2006 £6755. Outstanding Mortgage at 31 May 2007 £155,412.63 paying from June £1021.32 per mth (Interest Only).I am 56 yrs of age, my wife is 51. We do not have any mortgage protection or life insurance. Not a pretty picture is it?
In reply to Gimmewine, I was advised by Tom as a professional that my only alternative was bankrupcy BUT, I have since learnt from the guy whose company he 'stole', that Tom had told him at the time that it was possible to trade our way out of the mess, using a good business plan and marketing strategy, but he chose not to. It might seem that he had an ulterior motive, would it not?

Regards Bob
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