Hi just looking for some advice concerning Grant T

[sheilaswheels02]

Thanks Foggy and everyone else for your help and advice. I will start with their procedure and see how we go. I'll let you know what happens when I speak to them, then if it needs to go further up the ladder then so be it.

Sheila

[sheilaswheels02]

Ooh I almost forgot to add that one of my partners creditors refused the IVA agreement and attached the debt to the mortgage that in the event of sale or claiming equity they would receive payment for the loan that he had. This is around £4000, so would swallow most of their estimated equity anyway. I did write this on the forms where they required information to calculate the mortgage. They obviously ignored it then. I'll let you know also what they say about this

[longslog101]

I don't know much about secured creditors but are they allowed to carry an old debt into the future, the IVA wipes out any old declared debt as far as I understand ?

Or was this £4000 charge on your property part of the agreed terms to agreeing the IVA ?

Your IVA will have to have been accepted by 75% of the creditors (by value) so did that happen excluding the creditor who put the charge on the property ? http://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction ... gal-charge

If it was accepted without their agreement I find them placing a charge in your property questionable and possibly not in compliance with the law you're protected by with the IVA ?

[longslog101]

P.s. Also I'm guessing your both have separate IVA's that are interlocking and the property is in both your names ? Were both IVA's accepted by the required 75% majorities in each individual case?

For me it seems that by one creditor placing a charge against your mortgage/property they are treating themselves as a preferential creditor and claiming a large % of the equity in the property which would otherwise be shared amongst all creditors ?

[Foggy]

If the dissenting creditor secured the loan after the IVA was accepted he acted unlawully and your IP should be able to get this set aside. If it was done before the IVA then it comes off the equity figure.

[sheilaswheels02]

Hi Longslog and Foggy, this was done after the IVA was set as I had a long arguement with the representative about why they didn't accept the offer etc. I enquired with the then Debt Matters and they said it should be fine. It wouldn't makeany difference. The company is Weightmans, the guy I spoke to was very rude and chauvinistic. The amount added at the end of the mortgage is the amount of the loan and yes we did have separate IVA accounts running alongside each other, both our names are on the mortgage. As far as I can remember we must have had enough creditors accept the IVA as it wouldn't have gone ahead, as I understood it.
Cheers again
Sheila

[Foggy]

I would contact the Financial Ombudsman on this to see if they can sort it out. Weightman's should not have secured a debt protected by an IVA.

[Lisa Thomas]

Hi Sheila if this debt was unsecured at the time of the arrangement, regardless that they voted against the IVA, they were legally bound by it when 75% or more of creditors in value voted in favour of it. They could not then convert it to a secured debt. I agree with Foggy - you should challenge this.

[longslog101]

Given the details you have provided I would write to weightmans complaints department, again I would go to the top ! by recorded post with a copy of the IVA chairmans report that lists weightmans as a creditor.

Also provide proof of when they added the debt to your mortgage (this should be post IVA date)

then advise them they are in breach of the law as the debt was covered by the IVA as can be seen by supporting documentation. As such you will now be contacting the relevant parties to lodge a formal complaint against the company.

If however they resolve this in 14 days then the matter will be dropped.

Do all comms in writing and recorded delivery, state in your letters all correspondence from them must also be in writing.

[Shining]

There seems so much wrong with this Sheila and I would definitely take the advice above. Hope this is resolved for you very soon.

[sheilaswheels02]

Hi again, Longslog, I don't remember them being listed as a creditor on the IVA so they must have refused it whilst negotiations were going on before it was set up. I remember the weightmans rep telling me that they had refused the offer of adding to the list. I remember the debt being added after the IVA was set up. I will write to them and complain. Think I need to buy a book of stamps lol.

Sheila

[longslog101]

I'm no pro and someone better versed than me will be able to steer better but here is my layperson view.

If you listed them as a creditor it would be on the original proposal.
If the IVA was accepted by 75% of creditors then its tough **** for them even if thy voted against it! they are bound by the IVA terms.
Your communications from IP post phone call/letter advising of outcome should list all creditors and how they voted. (Chairmans report) and overall result.

Ensure they are listed on those docs! hopefully you have a copy of all of them, if not get one from IP firm who no have your paperwork,

Only way I can see this as possibly playing out in weighmans favour is they added the charge before the IVA was in place, I don't know the rules if they did this after being notified of intention to IVA and the result - one of the professionals can cover that one if it is the case.

Once you have established if they were listed as a creditor or not in the IVA (and bound by its' terms legally) and the date they placed charge on property you can then establish if they did this legally or not.

The fact that GT have not picked this it is shocking despite you advising them.

If it is a legal charge on property and all above board then it reduces your equity in property, in turn reduces their ability to drag it on and not tie you in to equity release clause if equity below the magic figure in your proposal.

If it's not a properly placed pre IVA legal charge then they are not acting in the other creditors best interest in ensuring that equity is divided correctly on a pro- rata basis.

Either way, leaves a lot to be desired by GT, there are 2 ways you could handle it, draw attention to the fact it reduces equity to get your comp cert if they then say ok nothing due, or challenge it. In which case that may then trigger ok cut of equity due as over threshold figure,

If one could get you a completion cert quicker then it might be the better route, (even though wight man get away with it) one would hope GT would do the right thing.... If they accepted it triggers no equity and you got your cert you could maybe refer to ombudsman once case closed just to sting Whitman's but then you might get in trouble for not disclosing something (even though you did)

[Lisa Thomas]

Hi Sheilaswheels - you raised some interesting questions in this post - please let us know how you get on...

[sheilaswheels02]

Aaah finally found this thread.Latest update, and I will copy and paste my e-mails since the last date on this thread. Admittedly I need to get my arse into gear and complain to the managers of what is now Aperture, but have waited so long for a response from them about anything at all. We have now been told that the IVA has failed, apparently we refused an extention of 12 months, according to the assistant who finally rang me. I told her that it was never offered to us as an option, we were told we had to re-mortgage. Told her about Weightmans and was told they can't do anything about it. She abruptly but politely ended the call when I repeated to her that an extension was never offered, we would have paid for another 12 months. Fobbed off. We received more form for PPI we had already sent the obligatory EIC ones. So still waiting for the new paperwork she said would be coming. Phone call was 21st March 2016.

06/08/2015
To: IVA.Progression@uk.gt.com


FTAO Gareth W Neill, Re, request for 3 possible re mortgage quotes or refusals.


Dear Gareth and team,

I know it's been a few months since I received your letter asking me to go to the different mortgage companies, to request for a re mortgage. I work nights so sleep during their opening hours and working nights the weeks and months fly by. You informed me of some equity you have discovered or something? but before I do go round asking companies for re mortgages did you see the note I wrote on the forms about Weightmans debt recovery? Back when our IVA was being processed they refused to be paid by the IVA you were setting up and asked to put Steven Jacksons debt amount onto the end of our mortgage. When I queried it with the then Debt Matters, they said it wouldn't be a problem as it was highly unlikely we would have to re mortgage. This was on the phone, not written in a letter. So we agreed that in the event of a re mortgage or sale of house they would get the sum of money required to clear Steven's debt, owed to a bank, of around £4,000. They have on occasion offered sums of money like for example if you pay £3,000 or £2,500 they will write off the debt but 1, we don't have the funds and 2, we were still paying the IVA and wouldn't have had that kind of money to pay them anyway. The last few years we have heard nothing from them but after asking some questions on an IVA forum, it was brought to my attention that they may have been in breach of that request. As they were the only creditiors? is that the right term? which means we got the 75% or more acceptance required to set up the IVA. That they shouldn't have been allowed to add the amount to the mortgage. Is there any way you can investigate it? This could be a potential problem regarding the equity you have found. I might be wasting my time going to mortgage companies.

With regards

Miss Sheila Price

No reply, phone calls, nothing

18/03/2016
To: ivacustomerservices@aperture.uk.com

FTAO Gareth Neill

Dear Gareth,

We have received your latest letter about some sort of variation to the IVA arrangements made over 10 years ago now, with the then Debt Matters company. I have looked through what has been discussed apparently in court, letter dated 11 March 2016, but I don't really know what this means to us. When we took out the arrangements we were told that after paying our monthly instalments, our debts would be paid off. That there maybe a need to remortgage but that was highly unlikely as long as we paid all the instalments in full. We did, every penny. And we have been left in limbo since the five years was up. The actual advertisement for an IVA on the Grant Thornton sites, advocated that you pay for five years and afterwards the remaining debt is written off, no mention of having to remortgage your house. We filled out the PPI query forms and went ahead with that in the hope that that would resolve some sort of issues with completion. We do not wish to remortgage, but we had a letter stating there was around £6,000 in equity. How that was found I don't know, but I can assure you and have previously informed you of a debt from a company called Weightmans of £4,000 was put onto the house/mortgage. This was because they rejected the offer of payment via the IVA arrangement and in the event of a remortgage or sale of house they get £4,000 paid to them to repay the debt. This is one of Steven's creditors.
I have been repeatedly sending e-mails to tell you this and didn't receive a thing back to tell us how or where we go from here. And looking at all the sums of money from creditors on the forms, did we actually make any progress at all? claims of £25,000!!!! increased claims!! this looks like we paid over £250 per month for five years as agreed and it didn't even make a dent in the £20,000 owed by each of us back 10 years ago. And what breaches have we both been accused of, that we haven't remortgaged? we were requested to go out an find three companies that would offer us a remortgage, with the black list over us, who is going to offer us a remortgage? and at what rate would this have to be??? So, we are being made out to be the bad guy to the creditors when, in reality we have had no correspondence for years, left not knowing if we can ever complete and get this insolvency off our heads.
Can someone ring me and tell me what happens now? my number is **********. I find this whole business outrageous, that clearly the model of 'pay your debts off with an IVA, pay agreed monthly payments for five years and all your debts afterwards will be written off' this is what we signed up for, not to pay more afterwards or enter into another debt on our house and no one really explain in in lay mans terms what the court jargon means, just firing off letters to us.


With regards

Miss Sheila Price

Phone call 21/3/2016

Latest e-mail, they have my number, I have a pay as you go phone. No credit left till pay day now

02/04/2016
To: ivacustomerservices@aperture.uk.com

FTAO Gareth Neill and co,

Thank you for my phone call 21/3/16, well what can I say? I have e-mails sent to Grant Thornton in my sent archives from 2013, chasing the progress of our IVA and constantly left in limbo. To find out the IVA has failed cos we are in breach of contract??? for not paying an extention of 12 months (this was not made available to us, given to us as an option or even offered as an option) or remortgaged our home. Which the caller said We would never have gotten from a high street bank due to our circumstances admittedly. The creditors aren't satisfied and failed the IVA, Aren't satified???!!! we PAID for 5 years every payment we agreed to pay. The agreement we signed up for was to pay an affordable amount agreed, to fill in the income and expenditure forms every year as we paid the IVA and the debts that we worried about and often had sleepless nights over, would be written off whether it was all paid off or not. Then we were asked to fill out PPI chasing forms for EIC, we did that. Then after chasing again, the request for a valuation, we did a free one on zoopla, somehow a figure of £6,000 approx was sent to us. I replied, that that was fine but a debt by Weightmans was attached to the mortgage as they refused the IVA payment option. This was explained to Debt Matters back when the IVA started, they said it would be fine, it clearly isn't as they would stand to get £4,000 approx of the equity you found, This I explained to the caller as she told me our IVA has failed. Nothing you can do about it apparently, well check the e-mails I did ask for advice and to see if someone could find out about the agreement with Weightmans. What did we pay for, we are back at square one? I asked if we would now be chased by the creditiors, she said yes but not for a while. I received a letter Friday from one of the companies handling a creditors debt. Me and Mr Jackson have not received the paperwork she said was being sent, we need to know what happens now??? We feel totally let down, left in limbo for six years not really knowing what's going on and paid for something that didn't deliver what it said it would, us being debt free after 5 years, that being 2010. More to the point how can the creditors move the goal posts and start demanding when we have paid what we were asked to, even paying another 12 months would not have paid them all off but we would have paid another 12 months if we were asked to. But what would have happened afterwards???? they clearly do not write off the rest they pester for it when they get the IVAs failed. What do we do now???

from
Sheila Price

[sheilaswheels02]

Just to note we paid £125 per month each into our interlocked IVA's. In the phone call I said about trawling the hight street for re-mortgages and refusal letters that they wanted. I said we didn't want a company that would, due to the IVA charge a ridiculous amount of interest. She said 'Oh no, only the normal hight street lenders would be acceptable and to be honest you never would have got an acceptance anyway'so they would have had me and Steven out trying to find a re-mortgage, being embarrassingly turned down, knowing full well anyway that we would be refused!!!! what kind of game are they playing. We wouldn't have wanted one but if it were with the exception of the Weightmans issue possible, we would have done it. Totally fuming