HMRC Tax Rebates for Self Employed

[Michael Peoples]

Good luck Jules and come back and let us know how you get on. You should never be bamboozled or bullied by your IP firm and they seem to have a bit of clarifying to do.

[Jules79]

Hi,

Well its been over 3 months since I contacted the company to ask for some clarity and to speak with our IP. In that time I have sent several email's to different departments, emails to people whom I had contact with to the run up to and on the actual day of our creditors meeting, a letter which I typed up with our specific issue and understanding of the situation or lack there of & addressed it FAO of our IP and STILL NO further communication has come my way other than a letter saying that all creditors have been updated (after I sent in collection agency letters to them the same time as the 'formal' letter was sent) All emails have been ignored, no reply from the letter I posted (proof of postage obtained) and we still have the Tax Return money in our bank account albeit a few hundred down as we had used some to cover my husbands time off over the jubilee/bank holiday periods as we were originally told by them that they have 50% of it off us...

I am now growing more concerned as the months pass, knowing we have a long time to serve with this company is filling me with regret and dread!

What is the worst that can come of this?

Thanks in advance

[MelanieGiles]

Which firm are you with Jules - and have you tried to speak directly with your IP?

[Jules79]

Hi Melanie,

The company we are using is Grant Thornton, after reading several blogs of late I'm living to regret taking the advice from the CCCS who pointed us in their direction. I did little research regarding the performance of the company and just went with what I thought was helpful advice. As you can imagine we were at the end our our tether by the time we had completed two years of a DMP as My work situation changed, unfortunately at that time I was (unbeknown to myself) having an emotional breakdown for which I have since been receiving counselling.

I'm sure you can appreciate how stressful the whole process is even with the correct information and communication. I feel as though since we were 'approved' they have left us in limbo and only by me calling them did I find out a small snippet of albeit incorrect information regards my husbands Tax rebate for which we have NEVER received any paper work or verbal information about?

I asked several customer service advisers originally around the time I first sent a question to the forum back in June and was told by all three that I had to deal with them? Since then I have emailed a few departments including a specific person whom until I sent an email asking for the direct details of Mark Allen (our IP) had been responding to emails (even mundane questions??) I also sent a letter addressed directly to Mark Allen for which we NEVER received a reply or any other communication for that fact! If we lived near Belfast I'd have camped out in his parking space ha! Unfortunately we live in the West Midlands so this is not a possibility.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just annoyed and confused. I even 'threatened' for want of a better work the Financial Ombudsman... To no avail it would seem?

Thanks

[MelanieGiles]

I am suprised that you have not heard from Mr Allen - I know him very well and know that he takes all complaints very seriously. I hope that Karol picks up on your post tomorrow, but in any case I will send it on in the hope that you will receive the response you need.

[Grant Thornton]

Good Morning Jules79,

I hope you are well.

I am sorry to hear about the difficulty you have had in seeking clarification on the you tax rebate. I would be grateful if you could email me at ivacustomerservices@uk.gt.com quoting "IVA Forum" in the subject line with your case code and I will review your case accordingly.

Kind Regards

Karol

[Jules79]

Thank you Melanie and also Thank you Karol. I have just sent an email with the info you require to the address you provided Karol so I will await your reply.

Thanks again for your help.

[Jules79]

So its that time of year again, and after lasts years upset and confusion the outcome was very welcomed as we were able to keep the full rebate after a review of our circumstances in order to cover unexpected expenses. At that time we were told by a lady called Claire who answered our IVA Forum emails via GT customer service's that all future rebates would result in 50% being retained by ourselves and the other 50% would be required to pay to our creditors. And in future due to the confusion relating to the CIS scheme we should only correspond with herself. We were happy with that albeit as much as we still think it is unfair due to the nature of a tax rebate for the CIS scheme and that its not actually additional income.
However 8 months on In the middle of July 2013 we received Stuarts tax return and with having the info from last year as previously arranged with Claire we forwarded this information to GT, we received some information from one of the customer service advisers that Claire now works in a different department and therefore have to deal with someone else (Natalie has responded to my last email) and I quote

"I wish to advise that the photo that you have attached, to confirm the tax rebate due, is not readable and I will therefore require you to re-send this again if possible.

In addition to the above, I note that it was agreed in 2012 that you could retain 50% of the tax rebate, as there was a requirement for vehicle repairs, replacement tools and lost earnings. I appreciate that you have been advised that you can retain 50% of any future rebate, however I will require clarification that you have the same requirements for the funds.

Once I am in receipt of the tax rebate confirmation, I will arrange for the calculation to be made and advise you on the balance due"

I'm fuming! Not only were we messed around with misinformation last year, it now seems that this year isn't going to be as plain sailing as we were lead to believe. Why is it so hard to get some continuity and full understanding of what is expected of us?! No where does it say in our paperwork that as Stuart is Self employed on the CIS scheme we have to be subjected to two reviews each year as that is exactly what is happening?!!! We have also had our annual review (March 2013) which states that although we are maintaining our IVA we are living on a very tight budget(this is after being allowed to keep the rebate last year) yet the reason the hardship will increase will be due to the fact that after 13 years of keeping the rebate we have relied on so heavily to support our living costs will be taken from us by goodness knows how much? Yet GT believe that this is all covered in our I&E (drawings) How can they say that when our I&E is based on the year previous? I know for a fact that Stuarts income is significantly lower this year (July tax return) consequently the 'extra' weeks wages (5 week months)we have been advised to save for 'unexpected costs' have been eaten up with rising costs etc due to our I&E being based on last years tax calculation? Doesn't currently help us especially after exceptional expensive repairs on his work van in May which resulted in us needing to borrow cash off his grandmother to cover missed work days due to the van breaking down and rental of another van so he was able to work whilst his own van was being repaired with the agreement to pay her back the money (which we have done) once his tax rebate came through knowing we were able to keep 50%. In addition to the increased day to spends and fuel/heating costs.
Any advice on how to deal with this next hurdle would be greatly appreciated as I am to send Natalie all of this info along with another 'readable' copy of his tax calculation with a breakdown of expenses? When is this hell going to end

[MelanieGiles]

As I probably said last year, the basis of whether you can keep the tax rebate does depend on the way your IVA payments were calculated in the first place. I prefer to use the net calculating basis - in that you make affordable payments during the year based on 20% being retained by your husband's employer, but then the full tax rebate is payable into the IVA each year - and my own clients are made very aware of this, because they meet me personally when their IVA proposals are being prepared and I ensure that they do understand.

If your firm have worked by taking account of your husband's gross receipts, then he should be able to retain all of the refund as this would have been built into his cash-flow. Whilst the people working on your case may change over time, the IP usually does not, which is why I advocate ongoing discussions with IPs directly to avoid confusion such as that you are describing.

[Jules79]

Thank you for your prompt reply.
We have one major issue Melanie, we haven't spoken with our IP since our Creditors meeting last March regardless of the several times I have asked to speak with him. I honestly thought this was all sorted via the info from the forum and dealing with Claire last year however this mornings email completely contradicts what was agreed? Claire advised me that not many of the GT advisers have a understanding of the CIS scheme which is why she told me to deal with her directly.
How I recall it they were given husbands tax vouchers with his gross income. No mention of his tax rebate was ever raised by them and only from me contacting them did they 'find out' he had a rebate. I just have a gut feeling that I need to be fighting for this cos as I've said we have no continuity of info and it seems agreements by them can be 'ignored' and the next person who picks up our query can change it?

[MelanieGiles]

I would floor a member of my staff if they made comments like that! Surely more training ought to be provided on the operation of the CIS scheme, if this firm are to continue to work with the self-employed!

Was it the actual IP you spoke with at the creditors meeting, or a member of their staff?

[Jules79]

I was surprised with the information given to me too, she continued to say that CIS is very confusing and that only a small amount of their customers are CIS self-employed which is why its caused so much misunderstanding?
I was under the impression I was speaking with my IP although I cannot be certain any more as I haven't been able to speak with him again even after requesting to do so on several occasions. Always a customer service lady or via email to the customer service team. I did ask for Claire to call me directly in November to get some clarity but after that one call the rest was through email. I have all the emails to prove what was arranged however this seems obsolete as Natalie has said and I reiterated 'we were advised we could retain 50%'
How can you change firms Melanie?

[MelanieGiles]

It is nigh impossible to change firms once an IVA is in place I am afraid. I don't understand why one of the leading firms of accountants in the world can find the workings of the CIS scheme so difficult. I think that you now need to escalate your enquiry up the internal chain of command,

[Michael Peoples]

I do not understand why the CIS scheme is confusing and indeed it is actually the easiest type of self employed proposal to draft and supervise in my opinion. You really need to sit down with your IP or a senior manager and have the proposal discussed and explained in detail to ensure you are not be treating unfairly.

Like GT, our head office is in N Ireland but we meet clients all over the UK and indeed where a client in supervision requests a face to face meeting, we send either an IP or senior manager to wherever they live. I think a face to face meeting is the best way forward for you and you should request one.

[Jules79]

Last year we had issues and requested on several separate occasions to speak with Mark Allen but to no avail, I even sent a letter to him directly documenting my issues with them and lack of understanding asking for him to contact me still no response. Also an email stating that we were never offered a face to face meeting and that our understanding of the tax rebate is very unclear. Karol then picked up my concerns via this forum and I was then passed to Claire which seemed to be working ok. Until yesterday when we received the email, I'd already had a call from them after sending an email asking for Claire to call me to discuss the arrangements (as instructed) to then be informed she'd moved departments and that I needed to send in hubbys tax calculation for a review? It seems were just going round in circles and not getting very far at all.
In both of your expert opinions what is the consensus regarding CIS tax rebate? If I can gain an actual understanding I will have some ammo to take back to them. We haven't ever received any documentation regarding the tax rebate and what is expected of us so I feel I'm having to accept what ever they say which is very insufficient indeed.
Thank you both for your continued support, its the only relief I'm getting knowing that at least you guys give a hoot albeit unable to be directly be involved. I wish we could change firm dammit