How much do IP's charge

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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 pm
A lot of the work is done prior to the creditors meeting for acting as nominee - and this is the same whether you are acting in a full and final settlement based IVA or one based upon contributions which runs over five years.

There is also more work done in the final year to conclude the arrangement, so the shorter arrangements are more cost heavy to take this into account.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:51 pm
Hi Melanie
Now your not trying to justify IP fees of 10k for a full and final are you ?
This is the sort of charges that have led to IP costs being under the spotlight,and rightly so.
There can,t be the same workload,surely,for a full and final v a five year IVA.
It can,t be right for the industry
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Andy Davie
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Chris.z

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Post by Chris.z » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:43 pm
I still think the Fee's seem really high for 6/8 weeks work and I am sure that isn't 8 hours a day either.... These Fee's must drastically reduce the amount of F&F settlements that go through due to the dividend being reduced. For instance if someone owed 40k , At a minumum dividend maybe 10 k would be accepted but add another 3, 4 or even 10k on and it's impossible. I for one welcome the reduction in fee's and feel it will genuinely help people in Debt and ultimately creditors.

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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:59 pm
No Andy - although in exceptional circumstances this could be justified. I have dealt with some really complex cases, where I have been running around trying to get accounts to the Revenue, in and out of Court getting Interim Orders and having five or six meetings with the debtor and major creditors whilst dealing with lists of creditors of 50 or more.

There should not be a set fee regime - the one size fits all does not work for professional services and we are not debt collectors but qualified professionals. Try telling a matrimonial lawyer that her fee for getting you access or joint custody of children is limited to £2,000 and how successful do you think she would be - or when would she drop out of the process?

Chris - your point about welcoming a reduction in fees is likely reduce the amount of decent IPs operating in this industry and therefore limit the options available for debtors not increase them.

No-one responding to this post has asked the original poster about the complexity of her case, but made assumptions based upon current press comment and personal experiences.

My original posting was perhaps a little misworded - what I meant to say was that in a one year arrangement we have to do more work in a smaller period than would have been spread over a longer period - so costs in the region of £5,000 for a whole case are not unrealistic - and more imporantly regularly acceptable to creditors. Agreed that £10k appears high - but none of us know the facts of the case.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
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catullus

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Post by catullus » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:14 pm
We may be accused of sticking together on this but what Melanie has said is absolutely right.

Our profession is under constant attack at the moment and it does seem that there is a presumption of guilt when ever criticism is levelled at us, be it from creditors or even our clients.

I've said on this site before that, in my opinion, the vast majority of IP's are hard working professionals who are tightly regulated. There are a few rotton apples, every profession has them, but boy do we pay the price for them.

On this particular thread, however, I have to confess that an IP saying that 15% is a standard fee
for a F&F is curious and is a rather weak attempt to justify the fee basis.

I think Whichwaynow could ask the IP to justify the quoted fee on a time cost basis as I suggested above.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:27 pm
Presume that this may be a "TiX" Compliant case, Catullus!!!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

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catullus

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Post by catullus » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:45 pm
I'm fed up with that term and we haven't even started with it yet!!
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:37 am
Hi
The media image is that IVAs are expensive and that IPs have earned well out of the IVA explosion in recent years.I am,personally,not in favour of reducing IP fees to a level where the IVA becomes unviable or the service offered is poor due to costs.However,assuming that this is a fairly straight forward case, I do not feel that a 40k full and final payment should be reduced to 30k because of fees,common sense must prevail and I hope the creditors will modify it.Assuming that it is a TIX proposal then it is flawed.It,s just not right.
The TIX 15% of realisation is to encourage collection of funds throughout the IVA term and this should not be the formula used for a simple full and final.
Maybe whichwaynow can confirm the complexity of the case.
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Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:58 pm
I agree with you Andy, and this all boils down to the IP properly explaining the basis of his proposed charges within the proposal document. I

f you look at SIP 9 - the basis for fees should be based upon the complexity of the case and be properly explained to both the debtor and creditors prior to acceptance.

And whatever we all feel about whether £10k can be justified, there is no way creditors are going to agree to charges like this for a bulk standard consumer based case, so the IP may be just kidding himself - or perhaps his company shareholders.



Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
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whichwaynow

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Post by whichwaynow » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:53 pm
I dont want to upset the apple cart when my creditors meeting is so close as I know that creditors and other IVA companies read these forums. As far as I know my case is straight forward but I will post full details when everything has been completed. I did ask my IP and was told that was the new set of fees which was going to be fairer to everyone.
IVA completed
 
 

Chris.z

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Post by Chris.z » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
I certainly wasn't accusing Ip's of profiting but as previously mentioned I am being charged over 10k for a 7 year IVA and my creditors are only getting near 7k. I presume mine is fairly starigtforward as I dont have NR or HBOS. I owe 26k and can't get a F&F due to high IP Fees I was offered some money by family but nowhere near the amount when you include such high IP fee's.

As mentioned before I feel that I am doomed as I am stuck with my IP company, Its well documented you can't change IP's even if they are doing a poor job.... And this has been established on this forum.

And TIX has come too late for me..!

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Chris
 
 

whichwaynow

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Post by whichwaynow » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:27 pm
What is TIX ?
IVA completed
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:23 pm
It is the abbreviation for The Insolvency Exchange - a firm of specialist voters who represent a number of major banks.

Chris - I assume that the fees you are being charged were fully detailed in the proposal you signed. Or have they increased since this time?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
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Chris.z

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Post by Chris.z » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:38 pm
Hi Melanie, During the variation meeting they went up by 4k.

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kandh

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Post by kandh » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:03 pm
Were we fortunate then? Our fees were set out at no more than £750 per year, totalling a maximum of £3,750 for the whole term of the IVA.

We are also in the process of a FFS and were expecting to have to pay at least £500. We have been told however that there are no additional fees or charges for calling the variation meeting. Until recently, we always thought this was standard throughout and never realised how different firms work and charge so differently!

K
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