i just dont know who to ask.

[andrea.r]

hi, could someone help me please i just dont know who to ask. my husband entered into an iva in nov 2005 after his company went ts up(sorry for the expression) the estimated debt was £187500.however the ipa states the debt is more in the region on £241207. the total claimed by creditors to date is £47510.the sale of assets and book dabt should have realised £116,986 however these figures were jigged by the ip to make the offer more attractive to the creditors.

the book debt has not been paid and probably never will be so there will be a short fall at the end.there is no minium divenden set but if all debts were paid it would have been estimated at 59%.can we make an offer to the creditors who have proved their claim only or does the offer have to include creditors were have yet to provide evidence of monies owed.any ideas? i cant see the point in paying £176 per month to then go bankrupt at the end due to a short fall.JUST HOW DO THESE PEOPLE SLEEP AT NIGHT THEY DRAW YOU IN THEN FEED YOU TO THE LAMBS!!!!! ANY ADVISE WOULD BE GRATEFULL

[MelanieGiles]

Hi andrea and welcome to the forum. We are delighted to help you with your questions, and do post at any time.

Can you let me know what you mean my "figures were jigged by the IP to make the offer look more attractive to creditors"? Do you mean that the IP used a lower figure for creditor claims to make the dividend look higher? I assume that a lot of the creditors are trade creditors rather than banks, but could you confirm this as well please.

It is not unusual for book debts not to be paid by customers within an insolvency, and professionals like me will take a very prudent view of future collections having reviewed the sales ledger very carefully. If your husband's IVA was put forward on the basis of book debts, which will not now be collected, then the IP will have to go to creditors and explain the reasons for this perhaps by formally varying the terms of the IVA. Is your husband paying £176 by way of monthly contributions as well?

With regard to creditor claims, the Supervisor will only pay out on claims which have eventually been received and formally agreed, and your husband will need to have a major input in that with the Supervisor. As the IVA has only been going for three months, it is far too early for the final claims position to be agreedm and with only £47k of a total £241k yet proven, there seems to be a way to go on that exercise.

Do you own your own property, and if so is there any equity in it which could be at risk under bankrupcy proceedings.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[andrea.r]

hi malanie,the ip says to put the book debt in the iva although it would probably never be paid. they also included an insurance claim of £16500 but this was neverowed to the company had had to go to the companies who had their goods stolen.the creditors were offered £139660 by way of assets and monthly contributions the reality is more in the regions of £82,000.the debts are mostly company debts but there were bank loans which the company had.£176 is paid as a monthly contribution.the monthly contribution are up to date and there is £1ooo to be paid in this week.however ip wants £116986 paid tomorrow(i dont know why )shall i pay the £1000(from asset sale) if she is going to file for br.i didnt think they could br you if you were all up to date with your contributions etc. the iva has been going for 15 months not 3. the supervisor is not very helpful and seems hell bent on br rather then helping. part of the iva was to release £40,000 out of the equity after 3 years.can the iva be amended,shall i pay the £1ooo in and kept the iva going for the time being?do you think this can be sorted or i am flogging a dead horse?i am totally out of my depth with this so pls advise

[MelanieGiles]

Hi Andrea

Sorry, I am getting a little confused, so can I ask you some direct questions:-

1 Are you saying that your husband's IP told him to include assets within the proposal which never were going to be collected? If so then that is a material irregularity and gives you grounds for a potential complaint.

2 I assume that you are telling me that your husband's proposal offerd £139,660 to creditors, but that you feel that only £82,000 can be collected and paid over (including your monthly contributions). Can you confirm this is correct?

3 Where does your IP think you are supposed to get £116,986 from tomorrow? This figures seems to equate to the amount of proposed book debt realisations included within your husband's proposal. Why would they all be due in one day?

4 Do not pay anything over to the IP at the moment, until we can sort out exactly where you are with the arrangement. I suspect that your IP may be favouring the bankruptcy route at present, as she can get herself appointed your Trustee and earn even more in fees, but then I may be cynical.

Is it possible for you to provide me with a summary of your husband's IVA proposal - ie what was to be paid over, where from and when - and advise what you think the eventual outcome will be? How much has been realised from book debts and asset realisations.

I am also assuming that your husband was trading as a sole trader? Is this correct, or did he in fact have a limited company?

Also who is your husband's IP? Did she meet with him personally when the IVA was being prepared?

The IVA can possibly be amended, but I need you to provide the above information before I can assess the viability of making an amended offer.

I'm here all day so keep posting!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[andrea.r]

hi , yes ip told him to include book debt(but ststed it would probably never be paid) and to include the insurance claim but they knew this wasnt his money to claim.
2.the estimated repayment is not acheiveable because the book debt has not been paid
.
3. i think they think he has received monies and havnt handed it over but all he has recieved is the £1000.
4.only £1000 has been ontained fron selling of assets and no book debt has been recieved(he was in factoring with ROYal Bank Scotland and they are not pursuing any of the debt)
the company started out as a partnership then they went ltd and eventaually steve bouht his parnter out .at the time the company folded he was registered as ltd at companieshouse, his accounts are are on sage as a ltd co. but gibson hewitt stated that as some creditors were trading with them before the company went ltd he couldnt claim to be a ltd compamy.(if tyhat mkes sense)

the ip is lynn gibson of gibson hewitt at Byfleet.we paid about £2000 fees before the creditors meeting.however 5 mins before the creditors meeting she give him the proposal and told him to read it.he signed in deparation of not going br but they werent exactly fare with him.will get back to you with the summary of the iva as he is not here at the moment.

[MelanieGiles]

Hi andrea

I really think that your husband has good grounds for a complaint against this particular practitioner if what you say is correct. Your husband should never have signed that proposal, if there were doubts about the collectability of book debts and asset values.

She is quite correct about the pre-incorporatiom debts, but any debts which are correctly within the limited company should not have been included as personal debts within the IVA. I suspect, however, that he has probably personally guaranteed some of the company's debts but perhaps you could confirm this.

I cannot believe that the IP gave your husband the proposal to sign 5 minutes before the creditors meeting, as this would have to have been circulated to creditors with at least 16 days notice, so your husband must have seen it and signed it beforehand.

Notwithstanding this, however, he does not appear to have been appropriately advised, and I feel that he must now arrange an urgent meeting with the Supervisor to discuss the future of the IVA - as it appears to me that this was unworkable from day 1.



Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[rosie1965]

who and where do wed complain to.

[MelanieGiles]

Hi rosie1965 and welcome to the forum

Ultimately to your IP's regulatory body, depending upon which one issues the licence - in Andrea's husband's case The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales.

But before doing this, you must give the IP the chance to address your concerns, but meeting with them or writing to them, as there are usually two sides to each story.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk