Is there anyway we can appeal Cleardebts decision to refer us to GF for secured borrowing ?

Get expert opinion. This is the place for new questions to be posted.
100 posts Page 5 of 7
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77175
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:30 am
This might be where the problem lies - if they say that a third party is able to furnish money then a secured loan might come under that.

I could be wrong (and I hope I am) but it is very underhand anyway.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

lifenoteasy

User avatar
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:26 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by lifenoteasy » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:48 am
A lot of this will hinge on the word "reasonable" and only a court can define whether that has occurred here.

Your IP has previously lost a court case linked to their interpretation of protocol http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cg ... /1710.html

Part of what the judgement stated "I have therefore come to the view that, even though the Protocol does not give rise to a legally enforceable contract but is no more than a voluntary code of practice..."

Additionally it goes on to state:

Mr Mond expanded on his reasons for this stance in the following passage from that witness statement:
"52. …It [the Protocol] operates and relies upon trust operating between the IVA Provider and the creditors. I am obliged, by the terms of Clause 6.1 of the Protocol, my professional obligations and (it has to be said) my personal long-held view that debtors should have the appropriate advice available to them at all times, to ensure that the debtor received appropriate advice in the light of their circumstances, leading to a proposed course of action to resolve their debt problem. The Protocol has, in my view, emphasised the nature of the advice given to debtors by IVA providers, such that when faced with what appears to be a Protocol-compliant IVA Proposal, the debtor can be satisfied that that is the most appropriate debt solution for the debtor. In those circumstances, unless there are very good reasons to the contrary, the creditor, especially a BBA-member creditor, is expected to vote in favour. The fact that a PCIVA is proposed is almost like a warranty for the IVA Provider that the IVA is appropriate. It is not then for the creditor to second-guess that debtor or the IVA provider. It is certainly not the case that a BBA member should be voting against it for its own selfish (and I would say, against the background of the Protocol, capricious) reasons."

Based on this:

1. The protocol is a lower standard and not too much can be inferred from it. By quoting protocol rather than the relevant Insolvency Act section your IP is seeking to enforce something that is only a voluntary code of practice

2. Your IP has previously acknowledged it only works if you have received the appropriate advice at the time. He has been aware since 2011 of other options but has only chosen to now raise this at the point that your IVA was coming to an end.

I'm afraid this will come down to how hard you are prepared to fight this and whether you can get the tools to fight this.

Given the level of data mining and secondary usage processing that appears to take place within the CDG group and affiliates you appear to be being directed down a sub prime lenders route that they inherently know will leave you potentially taking a loan that will be with you for a number of years.

Additionally the company they have referred you to will add up to 10% in fees to any agreed loan.

The last time I checked the Clear Debt web site mentions nothing about any of this so the only people who are actually informed of this scenario are staff of the company - not its potential clients.

If you go down this route in all written communications where you have to sign add after your signature "Signed based on the written instruction of my IP and name them."
IVA started March 2011, Completed March 2016 and certificate issued 11 days after final payment. It was not always easy but then some of the best decisions aren't.
 
 

longslog101

User avatar
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:19 am
Location:

Post by longslog101 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:17 pm
I agree it would seem from your clause the " third party " is their argument. that said if a loan shark offered you the money at 2000% that would comply with a third party, there has to be a line somewhere and I would suggest they are pushing the bounds of reasonableness, 12 months I further payments vs a decade..... you couldn't make it up could you.

I think the advice above re contacting Lisa is good advice, also get another set of advice, the more advice the better, remember they will tell you black is blue because they want your money so don't believe any of their arguments on face value.

once again I shudder to think how many people they have steered in this fashion, daylight robbery !
My Blog details, the route I took before IVA, how I choose my firm, equity release advice (year 4-5), challenging the CRA's keeping IVA on credit file once gone from insolvency register

IVA ended August 2015. Would recommend McCambridge Duffy
 
 

lifenoteasy

User avatar
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:26 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by lifenoteasy » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:42 pm
Longslog - not that many in terms of numbers.
IVA started March 2011, Completed March 2016 and certificate issued 11 days after final payment. It was not always easy but then some of the best decisions aren't.
 
 

thisusernameistaken

User avatar
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:46 pm
Location:

Post by thisusernameistaken » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:53 pm
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by relieved33

According to companycheck.co.uk, David Mond is a director of Gateway2finance unless I have entered or read it wrong. I stand to be corrected.
Oh now THAT is quite something isn't it? Talking about having your cake and eating it... "You MUST take out a third-party secured loan through us or we'll **** you over on your IVA."

IVA mis-selling claims ARE coming. The industry needs regulating properly and with utter transparency.

Add ClearDebt to the list of companies to avoid.
Last edited by thisusernameistaken on Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

relieved33

User avatar
Posts: 1166
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:22 pm
Location:

Post by relieved33 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:10 pm
As Kallis has posted though there is a company called Gateway Finance with no links to David Mond. This may be the company the poster has been referred to, only she can confirm. It may be a coincidence and not David Mond's company...
 
 

thisusernameistaken

User avatar
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:46 pm
Location:

Post by thisusernameistaken » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:02 am
If David comes on here and categorically states he has no involvement with the company he's referring the OP to then I will gladly remove my remark.

That said, I still think their overall practice and insistence on the OP taking on debt to get out of debt is utterly wrong (especially when that debt carries major risks as to the security of the property). The OP should do a further year if there is any qualifying equity imo.
 
 

stevef100

User avatar
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:28 pm
Location:

Post by stevef100 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:26 am
Gateway 2 Finance Limited, Company Number 06729467, Currently has David Emanuel Merton Mond as a Director.

This company is not to be confused with Gateway Finance Limited, Company Number 00587585
 
 

stevef100

User avatar
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:28 pm
Location:

Post by stevef100 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:39 pm
Can I also add, Gateway 2 Finance Limited are just a broker, a broker who will up to 10% to any amount you borrow.

** 10% ** for passing your details on to someone else to process.

I ask you, people of the forum, do you believe that this is right? Surely someone can challenge Cleardebt and its leader Lord VolderMond on these practices of "forced referrals"?
 
 

MikeyM

User avatar
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:36 pm
Location:

Post by MikeyM » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:01 pm
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by stevef100

Gateway 2 Finance Limited, Company Number 06729467, Currently has David Emanuel Merton Mond as a Director.

This company is not to be confused with Gateway Finance Limited, Company Number 00587585
This is why I asked the original poster if they knew whether or not it is Gateway2Finance. Hopefully they will let us know and if it is an explanation as to how the referral process works might follow.
 
 

Jeandd62

User avatar
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:52 pm

Post by Jeandd62 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:10 pm
We've asked one of the staff at CD today but they apparently don't know, but we have a call with someone at CD tomorrow before we speak to whoever this Gateway company are, so all will be revealed tomorrow. FYI all, we are definitely taking this further but at this moment in time we are complying with the request for fear of a breach with only 6 months to go. Does anyone know the answer to my question a few days ago regarding the variation meeting for the creditors to vote an extention for 12 months at all? This clearly hasn't happened so are there any implications to this?
 
 

mole

User avatar
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:30 am
Location: United Kingdom

Post by mole » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:44 pm
Hi Jean, I was with CD albeit my arrangement was from 2009. In my agreement it clearly stated an option of 12 months additional payments in lieu of equity, there was no need to go back to creditors.
 
 

mole

User avatar
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:30 am
Location: United Kingdom

Post by mole » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:47 pm
I would also ask them to clarify why the 2014 IVA protocol brought in a clause to allow the introduction of Secured Loans (in lieu of equity), if the 2009 and 2010 IVA protocols already contained provision for this (as they are arguing)
 
 

lifenoteasy

User avatar
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:26 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by lifenoteasy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:59 am
The variation meeting would not be needed if they were complying with the original protocol.

Be careful.
IVA started March 2011, Completed March 2016 and certificate issued 11 days after final payment. It was not always easy but then some of the best decisions aren't.
 
 

MikeyM

User avatar
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:36 pm
Location:

Post by MikeyM » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:10 pm
Jeandd62. Have you had any clarification on what's happening and whether it is Gateway2Finance involved?
100 posts Page 5 of 7
Return to “Ask IVA Forum and Industry experts”