Is there miss selling of IVAs? Ch 4 documentary

[admin]

Channel 4 are making a documentary about the IVA industry and plan to specifically look at the subject of miss selling. They need to find cases where people feel that they have been miss sold an IVA.


Possible miss selling of IVAs could include:
-Being told to lie about your income, expenses, assets or liabilities
-Not being told about all the options e.g. bankruptcy and dmp

Are you a victim of miss selling?
If you feel that you have been the victim of miss selling then please either post a reply to this thread or contact Andy Davie directly on this link:
http://www.iva.co.uk/contactus.asp


Looking to do an IVA?
If you are currently looking to do an IVA then please ask several firms and post on the forum if you would like a second opinion.


On a side note
This site was created because of the confusion about IVAs and the possible miss selling of IVAs. The forum has helped 1000s of people and we have had lots of great feedback. It is a shame that the bad practices of some rogue firms and IPs have tarnished the name of IVAs. The IVA can be an excellent solution but so can a DMP or bankruptcy - it depends on the circumstances.


Cases of Miss Selling reducing?
As a site that receives complaints from people in IVAs we have noticed that we have received considerably less complaints in the last 6 months. It might be that the transparent nature of forums such as this one have forced rogue firms to either improve their processes or stop trading.


Your help on this matter is appreciated.

Admin Team

[Adam Davies]

Hi
It always saddens me when I hear and read about the miss selling of IVAs.It has overshadowed all the good that this solution gives to people in debt.I'm sure Melanie must feel the same and I agree with admin that cases seem to be reducing and I hope it's because of this forum that people are better informed
I would also imagine that part of the reason IVA providers are making sure that all advice and info is correct is for fear of being named and shamed on this forum.
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[MelanieGiles]

Melanie's blood boils every time she hears the following terms:-

Misselling IVAs
IVA Council
Sausage Factories
Inapproprate Advertising
I can never get hold of my IP!
I did not understand the terms of my IVA!

And there are many others, which serve to put into question the absolute good work carried out by the majority of professionals who hold insolvency licences.

If IVAs are so bad - why do the majority of creditors vote in favour of them???


Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[lily]

lily

[jpj]

Surely the whole point of this site is to help people in IVAs...many people come to this site an emotional wreck,scared,uninformed,and not knowing if they have done the right thing taking out/considering an IVA...Surely Admin helping channel 4 compile a load of scare stories about mis sold IVAs is going to do no good for the industry as a whole,and is going to make genuine people think twice about taking out an IVA!!..and tar hard working,honest IPs like Melanie with the same brush...
volunteer for the program with extreme caution!!

[MelanieGiles]

By highlighting the issues of mis-selling or misleading marketing, this can only make people more aware of what to check out when choosing an advisor. So I feel that will strengthen consumer confidence in the IVA as a debt management solution, rather than weaken the position, but you do make some very good points jpj, as ever!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[mish1953]

It depends on how the programme is handeled - inappropriate Payment Protection Policies being a case in point, many of those were sold by banks without explainingg the policy and some banks implied that they wouldnt grant a loan/mortgage without them.
If it educates people about IVA's then its a good thing .. if its witch-hunt then its a bad thing .
I think most folk in debt will hear what they want to hear , likewise folk trying to get loans will often ignore their ability to repay ..
I would question some of the agressive marketing of IVA's and how appropriate the daytime TV marketing is . Likewise how much control that IPs have over the companies they work for and how much real control they have over sales staff.
Do people understand that IP's have to make a living, its not a free service ..
Ive mixed feelings about such TV programmes but I guess that its a valid subject.

Mish

[jpj]

) Thanks Melanie...
I think there is a very fine line between being mis sold an IVA and mis understanding part of an IVA...Numerous people post on here stating they have been mis sold an IVA only to be told the facts by other forum members and realise they just didnt understand...
You can pick any subject and find mis selling....cars,pensions, houses...I just hope channel 4 give a balanced view...without too much sensationalism!!

[Adam Davies]

Hi jpj
Quote"Numerous people post on here stating they have been mis sold an IVA only to be told the facts by other forum members and realise they just didnt understand..."
A very good point
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[catullus]

I have to say that I have reservations that this is a project in which IVA.co.uk should be involved.

Given the stress and complexity that can surround IVA's it really will not be difficult to find two or three horror stories, which may well be genuine, and when punctuated with the apparent independent comments of a spokesperson from the British Bankers Association and a "charity" like CCCS, will give a powerful message that the whole industry is rotton.

Of course, it's all in the editing and if the programme was counterbalanced with stories of people who were well advised and grasped the lifeline of an IVA when nothing else could help, then perhaps the programme would be worthwhile.

But my experience of these type of programmes is that they are sensationalist in nature and given IVA.co.uk's growing profile in the industry,your involvement will only lend weight to the sensationalism and can only damage further an already beleguered profession.

Mis-selling certainly has been a problem in the industry but with the Advertising Standards Authority intervention earlier this year and with regulators well attuned to the issue, the problem is being tackled.

For these reasons I question whether this is a particularly good time to raise these issues because IVA's are currently at a cross roads, precariously balanced between future events that will determine whether IP's can remain independent and give independent objective advice or whether we turn in to a quasi debt collection department for the banking industry.

So I suppose the message for IVA.co.uk is if you chose to sup with the Devil take care to have a long spoon.

[Adam Davies]

Hi Catullus
You make a good point,but Channel 4 will make this programme with or without our help and by being involved at least we can try to give a balanced view.
Afterall no one is a bigger fan of IVAs and what they can do for people than me !!

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[jpj]

I think it would be very hard for an inexperienced person to know if they were being mis sold an IVA or not...only after a year on this site would I now know what would be fact and what would be fiction if I were to be looking into an IVA now!
The only moral of the Channel 4 story should be to shop around....but wether a inexperienced,stressed, debt laden person can still make the best choice is questionable!
Maybe the program will force the firms who mis sell to clean up their act...and agreed, that would be a good thing!!

[admin]

Catallus, lily, jpj, mish,

You make some excellent points. The IVA market is extremely hard to understand and there is a lot of confusion about the key issues.

Here is a small effort to underline some of the key points:

IVA Fees
IVAs are put together by professional insolvency practitioners who have to have formal qualifications which are hard to attain. Fees range from approx 4k to 7k for the length of the IVA. The important point to understand here though is that the consumer does not pay the fees. The fees are paid from the pot of money that goes to the creditor. This pot of money is always calculated the same way - ie it is all your disposable income after reasonable living expenses are taken away. So as long as your IVA is accepted it does not matter what the fees are. HOWEVER higher fees may increase the chance of the IVA being rejected as some creditors believe that the fees charged by IPs are too high.

Up front fees
Some firms charge upfront fees. This is usually on a no-win no-fee basis. A lot of work has to be done to put together a proper IVA proposal that will be accepted by creditors. Paying an extra fee makes sense as long as you get better customer service and your IVA has been very well written to ensure a better chance of going through. However if you do not get anything for the extra fee then obviously it is not worth paying.

IVA Proposal
A well written IVA proposal has a better chance of being accepted. The proposal should entirely reflect your unique situation. Fiddling numbers to try to get it to fit IVA criteria should be avoided as this will usually end with the IVA failing before the 5 year term. It is worth pointing out here that people ultimately have to sign a document declaring that these figures are accurate and true and that they would be committing fraud if they lied.

Miss selling - Making false claims
The BBA called a meeting back in January and invited most of the major IVA firms. In this meeting they accused some of these firms of miss selling (or false advertising). Their main concern was the claim that you could write off up 75% of your debt (this is rarely possible and the average is probably about 40-50%). Some firms were advertising 95%! The 75% write off claim seems to have now largely disappeared.

Miss selling - Not explaining bankruptcy
An IVA is one of several solutions that are available and possible for being wanting to resolve their situation. An IP is regulated and HAS to explain the bankruptcy option if they do not then they are breaching their own code of conduct.

Those are I believe some of the major issues that channel 4 should consider.

We are helping channel 4 for exactly the reason you state. IE we want to ensure that they get this right as it is a very important subject that needs to be responsibly reported on.

Feedback on the above points welcome

Best

Admin Team

[MelanieGiles]

Let's hope that this film also focussess on the debt management industry as well, as in my experience the majority of inappropriate marketing and poor advice comes from this industry sector rather than IP's directly.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[Adam Davies]

Hi
On the fees issue I think figures of 4-7k may be true of todays market but I think that in the past fees have averaged the top end of that figure,if not a little bit more.When you consider that nomminee fees were fairly standard ar arounf 2-2.5k per proposal plus vat[nearly 3k] plus yearly supervising fees.
I think the whole miss selling issue surrounds the fees that could be earned in an IVA compared to bankrupcy and DMPs.
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp