IVA all gone wrong ?

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msi-leadkings

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Post by msi-leadkings » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:57 pm
individual voluntary arrangements (IVAs), the popular alternative to bankruptcy, are in some cases being mis-sold by some debt advice firms that are too sales based…

advisers and consultants receive many calls each month from people being poorly advised by many, heavily sales based, debt advice firms persuading consumers that an IVA is right for them in circumstances where it clearly is not suitable.

This comes with the news that the OFT is reminding debt management companies that they also must not use misleading trading names and must make clear that they are commercial enterprises rather than charities or government services.

The reminder follows action by the OFT to refuse an application from Baker Evans Ltd to use the trading names ‘The Bankruptcy Helpline’ and ‘The Insolvency Helpline’. But it is clear that Baker Evans come under the same company umbrella as Blair Endersby and Baines & Ernst, both of which provide IVA’s, and are known in the industry as ‘IVA Factories’.

The OFT refused to authorise the use of these names because they could potentially mislead consumers into thinking they are dealing with an impartial, non-commercial or governmental organisations, rather than a commercial enterprise. Consumers need to be able to differentiate between the two.

Ray Watson, the OFT’s Director of Consumer Credit said:

‘Consumers must be able to distinguish commercial debt management companies from free charitable or government services. We will not agree to names that could mislead consumers into contacting companies when they might think that they are accessing free advice.’
Why use an IVA?

An IVA allows a debtor to reach an agreement with his or her creditors to wipe off some of the money owed in exchange for reduced monthly payments. The IVA company then formulates the repayment plan, typically lasting five years, with the creditors.

We have seen IVA applications increase in the last two years, but we are also seeing record numbers failing and being terminated. They are popular because they avoid the stigma of bankruptcy, but because they have not been advised properly they are totally un-clear on the other solutions that may be available to them, including bankruptcy which is now soon as a recommended debt solution.

Please note that IVAs are not suitable for everyone and come at a price with most firms charging huge upfront fees of up to £2,000 before work is commenced. These fee charging rogue companies are misleading their clients who can get a better service for no cost upfront.

There are set criteria which someone has to meet before they are put on an IVA. One of these is that they have to have at least a surplus income of £200 a month at least. You must also have at least 3 separate creditors.
Example of bad IVA advice

One horrific example of bad IVA advice is a nurse based in Cardiff who contacted a debt company after seeing a tabloid advert and was advised to apply for an IVA. She then contacted Integrity Debt Solutions because she was concerned that her monthly repayments were unaffordable – they had been assessed on income that included her son’s disability allowance.

In reality fees should be included in the monthly repayments of an IVA, not charged upfront.

people may be being encouraged by unscrupulous IVA companies to commit to IVAs, even where this may not be the right course of action. These companies aren’t always properly informing their customers about the fees they charge for arranging an IVA, or about the adverse effects of IVAs on credit ratings.

there is concern about the quality of advice given by IVA advisers to consumers. Firm action must be taken against any IVA company found to be issuing false or misleading advice. Not only this they are also seeing a rise in poor advice from charities offering debt advice, but then passing people over to IVA Companies who have and ‘arrangement’ with that charity.

People with debts are morally obliged to repay them. How much they repay depends on their circumstances. We conduct a thorough review of their income and outgoings before contacting creditors. It is not right to help people avoid their legal liabilities.

we are frequently hearing from customers who are being told an IVA won’t appear on their credit rating when the reality is that it will. Some companies are giving the impression that this solution has a much smaller impact than it does. While all IVAs must be sold by a registered insolvency practitioner, there is no regulation of the companies employing the practitioners or of the front-line staff.

Just be careful with an IVA it is not what it seems and remember for the first two years nothing gets paid to your creditots, it all goes in the pockets of the IVA Company.
You have been warned!
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:06 pm
Hi
"Just be careful with an IVA it is not what it seems and remember for the first two years nothing gets paid to your creditots, it all goes in the pockets of the IVA Company.
You have been warned!"

Outdated information I'm afraid

Yes there have been some very poor advice given to people in the past and yes some people are in or have been in IVAs who clearly shouldn't be however in the vast majority of cases the IVA is an excellent solution.
I am proof of that
Regards
Andam Davies
 
 

rayb

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Post by rayb » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:09 pm
Same here Andy - IVA was successful as are many others.
 
 

winter_blues

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Post by winter_blues » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Well, my experience of phoning around and taking advice found that the vast majority of IVA firms give sound advice and the only thing I noticed was the varying degrees to when and the level of fees charged upfront.

Andy is quite right in what he says and I found that the information was more than sufficient in allowing me to come an informed decision. I know an IVA is right for me and many others that have sought and been given totally professional advice on this forum.
Winter-Blues
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:26 pm
I agree Andy. I didn't have a good experience with my IVA, but thankfully things have improved a lot since then and they are an excellent solution for many people.
 
 

cathrine.ll

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Post by cathrine.ll » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:47 pm
I would like to endorse the positive comments on this topic.

My husband and I were fortunate to be given a lump sum on the condition that this was offered as a final settlement to our creditors and after nearly 4 years of real hardship we are finally debt free. This would not have happened if we had not entered a joint IVA and had the support of our supervisor.

Its six months since we received our certificate of completion and for the first time in more than 6 years, we are having a relaxed Christmas. No amount of money can buy the kind of peace of mind I have right now and as I write this I am so grateful that, through the IVA, we have been able to keep our home. The IVA gave us a second chance and I have learnt a whole new way to live, debt free and within my financial means. [8D]
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:18 pm
I agree with the positives - at the moment my IVA is running smoothly and it is the best thing I ever did.

Where appropriate I will always recommend them and as Andy says, msi-leadkings should keep up with the times.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

Broke of London

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Post by Broke of London » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:37 pm
My iva does exactly what I wanted it to do; get me out of debt, protect me from creditors, enable me to move on with my life. I am very happy with my decision and my iva provider.
 
 

kallis3

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Post by kallis3 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:38 pm
Same here.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

clareyfarey

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Post by clareyfarey » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:43 pm
Mine was without a doubt the best solution for me.
60 Payments Made!! IVA completed Oct 2010

read my story
http://clareyfarey.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:04 pm
I am new upon the path, but, so far, have had no real problems and no nasty surprises.... in fact everyone I spoke to bent over backwards to make sure I had all the info I needed ( felt like too much at times!). And, it seems savvy creditors "police" the IPs fees when negotiating the proposal conditions in any case.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

Broke of London

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Post by Broke of London » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:29 pm
Any effort by the OFT to clean up the debt industry would be welcomed by conscientious professionals, by clients and by anyone needing debt advice and not knowing where to turn. Msi -leadkings, what part of the industry do you work in? You are obviously a professional committed to impartial advice so I am surprised the article above has been edited with a bias against ivas and has not detailed the extortionate fees charged by some br assist companies or debt management cos who put people on dmps that will live longer than they will
 
 

andrea1968

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Post by andrea1968 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:19 pm
why post something so negative-its enough to frighten people off sorting their debts out and getting help-if the poster represents a debt management company well-been there and done that and would be for the next 20 odd years-if they promote bankruptcy well sorry many people including my husband would lose their jobs if not their home.So whats left-yes the iva.We all have our own reasons for choosing whichever path we take to sort out our finances and i for one am intelligent enough to research the options and seek the solution i need.None of us have took the decision to go forward with an iva lightly-remember poster that we are not going to gamble the next 5 or 6 years of our lives away on a whim and a prayer.This had been one of the most difficult and stressful decisions we ever had to make and didnt for one second feel we were being misinformed or conned in any way.We looked at the fact that after 7 months in a dmp not one of our creditors agreed to freeze interest or stop charges so the only alternative was the iva.The amount some our creditors have already had over the years has already paid back the original debt with interest so i dont expect to lose any sleep over my decision to enter the iva.If creditors became more flexible with customers in the current climate maybe their wouldnt be so many of us resorting to dmp,iva or bankcruptcy.
full and final accepted January 2015

iva agreed; August 2010
iva would have completed; August 2017
extra year thank's to NRAM
 
 

andrea1968

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Post by andrea1968 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:50 pm
As for the fees in the iva-worth every penny-look into the training and expertise an ip has and you may begin to understand the work that goes into an iva being sustainable and most importantly successful.For all the hassle and heartache our creditors gave us i couldnt care less how much they get from the pot!!!!!
Last edited by andrea1968 on Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
full and final accepted January 2015

iva agreed; August 2010
iva would have completed; August 2017
extra year thank's to NRAM
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:57 am
"Please note that IVAs are not suitable for everyone and come at a price with most firms charging huge upfront fees of up to £2,000 before work is commenced. These fee charging rogue companies are misleading their clients who can get a better service for no cost upfront.

There are set criteria which someone has to meet before they are put on an IVA. One of these is that they have to have at least a surplus income of £200 a month at least. You must also have at least 3 separate creditors"

I fully support the OFT initiative into cleaing up the debt management industry, which includes insolvency practitioners as well, but I'd really like to know where you are capturing your data from msi-leadkings as it does seem very out of date to me. Having only very rarely charged up-front fees - for very good reasons - I am not sure I understand your comments about firms who charge £2,000 up front. How recent is your data capture, and are you prepared to name names?

And on the subject of mis-selling - can there be anything worse than the antics we have seen over the last couple of years from the so called "bankruptcy assist" industry - where in my experience fees of at least £2,000 are charged for filling in a few forms, attendance at Court and to the debtor meeting with the OR - which most professionals know is a complete load of tosh.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
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