IVA and BR - an idiot's guide

27 posts Page 1 of 2
 
 

worriedhalftodeath

User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm
Location:

Post by worriedhalftodeath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:24 pm
My husband's creditors meeting was yesterday but no decision was reached as they're asking for an additional £200 a month which really isn't possible. Our IP is valiantly doing battle on our behalf and trying to get that figure lowered, but I have a bad feeling so am trying to think positively about BR instead.

I'm really confused about how the monthly payment order amount decided in BR though. Who decides what outgoings are reasonable and sets the monthly amount? Why is it usually less than the best offer put forward by an IP for the IVA? Also, is it true you're only allowed one television? That you may not be able to keep your mobile phone and that having the internet is an absolute no no?

I've seen postings referring to BR as an easier option -payments are often less and over a shorter period.. But if the creditors don't think my husband's current IVA proposal is fair and believe that he can pay then how will the amount he's asked to pay into BR be any different? I've no idea if this is making sense... it probably isn't. My head is absolutely spinning and I'm totally confused.
 
 

Shining

User avatar
Posts: 27019
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:57 am
Location:

Post by Shining » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:30 pm
hi worriedhalftodeath, I'm sorry that the creditors meeting didn't work out, wherever do they expect you to get £200 from? I'm sure you IP will be fighting for you but in the meantime I would suggest you look at Skippy's blog, it's very informative and hoepfully can answer some of your questions. I've never heard of one TV, no mobile and no internet...lots of posters here are bankrupt and they certainly have internet. If anything within Bankruptcy I think they allowances are a little more generous. Have a read and I'm sure Skippy will be along soon as she knows her stuff about bankruptcy x
IVA final payment left the bank on the 26th January 2013...looking forward to a debt free future.
 
 

worriedhalftodeath

User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm
Location:

Post by worriedhalftodeath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:54 pm
Thanks Lesley. I can understand where the creditors think they could get their hands on the additional £200. They thought the money going for the boiler was insurance... but it's acutally paying for the boiler which we had to replace 2 years ago as the old one conked out. That's £46 a month. My husband also has monthly gym membership at £42. But both the above are paid for by me - my husband doesn't pay anything towards it. I'm solvent and not trying to get an IVA. However, my husband does have private medical cover... He slipped 2 discs in his back a few years back and was in absolute agony, off work, unable to drive, unable to sit at a desk, basically housebound. He was getting nowhwere with the NHS - some days would be better than others, it's not a life threatening condition and we all know the funding pressures the NHS faces. Eventually as he was missing so much time at work and the slipped discs were the result of a work accident when he was asked to help shift box upon box of files as the office was relocating, his company added him to their private health scheme. Hurrah! He got a consultation, had an MRI scan, got a full diagnosis, a series of spinal injections (ouch) and eventually an operation, which finally in March 2008, (the accident was in November 2005) seemed to do the trick and life was almost back to normal. That's where the gym comes in though as it's a vital part of his regime, builds up his core muscle strength and enables him to manage his condition to the extent that he rarely has to take painkillers and if he's just careful he can lead a more of less normal mobile life. BUT... he was then made redundant from that job so starting to pay for the health insurance himself... it's around £90 a month. The creditors are saying that he doesn't need the insurance or the gym and our IP is arguing that he does. Anyway, I pay for the gym... They reckon he could get the same care for free on the NHS but we know from experience that just isn't the case. He could stop paying the insurance, but you just know that the minute that happens something will go wrong and his back will 'go' and he won't be able to work at all... God,I'm so sorry, I'm really rattling on here, but that's why they're asking for £200... And they're kind of penalising me in the process and the i take care of the boiler and gym payments. I'm solvent. I'm not proposing my own IVA and I pay as much of my husband's expenses as I can, given that I do have my own debts and loans to service too... The creditors have all the figures and will have seen that.. but this is how they're wanting to squeeze that bit extra... We're trying to get letters from my husband's GP and Osteopath stating that the healthcare and gym are necessities rather than luxuries... but I just have a bad feeling about it all and I'm now back to imagining knocks on the door and big bruiser types pushing their way in to grab our second television and pull the plug on the internet! sigh!
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:27 pm
You seem to have good arguments for the additional expenditure, but why is the boiler payment being included as allowable? Surely this is an additional creditor?

The other stugg I would be fighting hard for - and I would have included my reasons for justifying your expenditure within the proposal itself. Was this done by the IP acting for you? Which creditors are objecting?
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:28 pm
You seem to have good arguments for the additional expenditure, but why is the boiler payment being included as allowable? Surely this is an additional creditor?

The other areas look reasonable, but your IP could perhaps have helped smooth the way for this by putting detailed explanations for the unusual items within the body of the proposal.

The other stuff I would be fighting hard for - and I would have included my reasons for justifying your expenditure within the proposal itself. Was this done by the IP acting for you? Which creditors are objecting?
Last edited by MelanieGiles on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Skippy

User avatar
Posts: 20720
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:08 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Skippy » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:30 pm
I'm sorry to hear that things aren't going well.

First of all there's nothing to say that you can't have more than one TV if you're BR, so don't worry about that!

The mobile phone is a grey area though - I kept mine, but some people have had their contracts cancelled if the network provider found out.

The internet isn't an allowable expense unless it's needed for work or school, but there's nothing to stop anyone paying for it out of their surplus.

I doubt your hubby would be allowed the health insurance, but again, if he has enough surplus he can pay for it with that. You only pay a percentage of your disposable income, so the surplus is yours to do as you want with it.

If your husband was to go BR, your salary wouldn't be included in the calculations for an IPA. I was the only one who went BR, and I had to put down my outgoings, and my OH's contribution to the household, presumably to make sure he was contributing, but the IPA was worked out on my salary alone. Therefore you could carry on paying for the boiler and the gym.
 
 

worriedhalftodeath

User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm
Location:

Post by worriedhalftodeath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:43 pm
Thanks for all the responses...
Melanie - the boiler loan is in my name only so not included with the creditors... but was listed as one of my expenses to show that I don't have any surplus left over to contribute towards my husband's IVA. The creditors thought the monthly amount was for insurance though, which is isn't so I think that's been cleared up now. My husband's health history was all documented in the proposal as the reason why his debts escalated to such a high level. He was off work for a long time, they stopped paying sick pay, they then stopped his bonus payments, then made him redundant and when he finally got another job it was paying £10k less than he had been on 3 years earlier... At the moment the health cover is acutally on hold for 6 months... Our IP firm in McCambridge Duffy and Michael has been involved every step of the way so I know he's putting our best case possible forward... and I don't think he's given up hope yet.... I think it's me that's done that... Given that we don't smoke, drink or really go out anywhere other than the gym 2 to 3 times a week (how sad!) it just seems ludicrous that they want me to stop paying his gym membership to pay into his IVA... surely I can choose what to spend my money on? I work a long enough week in a stressful job... and it's the cheapest gym by far in our area... the least s****iest you could imagin. As for the health insurance... well knowing our luck the minute that's stopped he'll have another bout and that will just about finish us off I reckon.
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:47 pm
Am sure you will OK in the long run - keep the faith, they are a good firm and know what they are doing, and have good relationships with creditors.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

worriedhalftodeath

User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm
Location:

Post by worriedhalftodeath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:04 pm
Thanks Melanie. It's TIX that are asking for the additional amount... I forgot to mention that last time... And I wasn't swearing in that post.... though with the stars in place it looks like I was... My grammar was bad but I was trying to say that the gym we use is not in the least bit fashionable or plush... it's actually a bit on the seedy side which is why it's £30 a month cheaper than its closest competitor.... We don't even dare take a shower there - do that at home instead! The word I wrote rhymes with mankiest but should have had the letters SW at the front instead of m... if that makes sense, which it probably doesn't... it's been a bit of a day.

So, in simplistic terms would it be right to say that in an IVA all the surplus income in included in payments to the creditors but in BR a percentage of the surplus is paid each month? And if so, can you tell me what that percentage is? Trying to figure out if we could keep insurance and gym if he goes BR... there might be enough left over...
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:16 pm
Oh that has made me giggle! I can now see why the stars, and I thought you were saying something that rhymed with prettiest!

In an IVA creditors expect you to pay the full amount of your disposable income, whereas in bankruptcy you would currently pay between 50-70% of your husband's surplus - probably leaving you far better off with payments to only have to pay over a three year period.

Knowing Michael Peoples as well as I do, he will be fuming about this and is sure to be dealing with this personally for you. In time, creditors will beging to realise and count the cost of not supporting IVAs, when bankruptcy numbers continue to soar - although I have to say that it is expected that the Official Recievers may well be seeking to tighten up the allowances.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

worriedhalftodeath

User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm
Location:

Post by worriedhalftodeath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:24 pm
I felt awful when I saw those stars so had to post that message! Not that I never swear of anything but I wouldn't use this forum to do so!
Michael has been absolutely wonderful over this... and yes he was personally giving a piece of his mind to the creditors yesterday! I think he's rather enjoying the fight and we're confident that if he can't do it, then really nobody else can and we'll just have to accept their decision and go BR. Interestingly N Rock who are the largest single creditor were in favour of the proposal but as Tix works for a combination of credit cards and my husband has built up debts on a number of cards, they're able to use their weight.... Do you think we'll manage to get our BR petition in before any changes are made to the allowances~? I'm guessing we'll be adjourned for the full 14 days so we wouldn't be able to petition until the New Year... not sure how long it all takes...
 
 

worriedhalftodeath

User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:21 pm
Location:

Post by worriedhalftodeath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:26 pm
We call him The Peeps in our household.... He's a legend!
 
 

Skippy

User avatar
Posts: 20720
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:08 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Skippy » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:04 pm
I thought the same as Melanie when I saw the stars in your post! The system is a little sensitive as I found out when I mentioned Harry, my puddy (I can't use the other word!) cat!

Good luck with hubby's IVA proposal, you're in very good hands with Michael and McCambridge Duffy x
 
 

moretolife

User avatar
Posts: 1390
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by moretolife » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:23 pm
Yep gotta agree re Mc Cambridge Duffy..Michael and his gang are legendary
IVA completed 11th Dec 2009 due to a Full and Final with the fantastic help of Michael Peoples and
Mc Cambridge Duffy

Visit my blog...Journey from Debt to Life Post IVA
http://moretolife.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77167
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:34 pm
I hope you manage to get sorted worriedhalftodeath. You are with an excellent company.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
27 posts Page 1 of 2
Return to “a success story”