Thanks Vince, I emailed Grant Thornton last Sunday 4th using the link on this forum but no response as yet. I know it's only been 5 days and I may look impatient but as mentioned in my previous post I settled my IVA on 10 June 2011 so think I'm entitled to feel a bit disgruntled. Not happy with GT and considering making a complaint against them and have discussed possible legal action for misrepresentation.
Haven't seen much of Karol this week - perhaps she is away?
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
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Hi! I understand your frustration but don't think there is a legal claim to be had. The issue is with HMRC processing claims, not with GT. In actual fact, they are one of the more proactive firms who are closing cases again instead of waiting for the vat refund. To add to the mess, HMRC may not pay out vat claims on closed cases so it's not just a case of cashflowing HMRC until the claim comes in.
Just to pick up on Loopfish's points - I don't think that Tenon are being at all slack, and I know Gill Wrigley and can vouch that she is one of the best personal insolvency IPs in the business. Not sure why you have been unable to speak with her though.
My own VAT claim was put in in September, and bar a couple of weeks earlier this year when I sought Counsel's opinion following the issue of guidance from our regulators, we have continued to close cases. I have not heard much from HMRC about our claim, and I don't think many have been paid yet.
Some firms have chosen not to close cases, and it is for them to explain those reasons why. This is not our fault - most IPs would wish that the stupid case had never been brought, as for a mixed practice like mine where we do both personal and corporate insolvency having to deal with partial exemption moving forward is an absolute nightmare.
Hi Melanie,
Could you please explain how you have continued to close cases before receiving your claim from HMRC. As I understand it the refund from HMRC is to be paid out as a dividend to creditors, how have you dealt with this, can it be paid to creditors at a later date once a case has been closed and closure certficate provided.
Hi Kallis,
It appears Karol from Grant Thornton logged onto the forum yesterday so do not think she is away, maybe GT are avoiding contact or replying till they have some good news.
On a different subject i have read the guidance from the IP's regulator and it appears there is no obligation for the IVA supervisor to make an automatic claim for the VAT, they can use their commercial judgement as to whether it is in the creditors interest or not. The decision must be made on a case by case basis taking into account the potential benefit to creditors versus the allowable costs. The allowable costs includes time chargeable by the supervisor in accordance with the terms of the IVA. The VAT on my fees is approximately £ 850, my supervisors fees are approx £ 350 per hour, I would imagine once fees have been deducted the balance left would result in little benefit to the creditors.
Another point to note is that if the IP's are to charge fees for time spent claiming the VAT back they have to summon a variation meeting for this to be agreed in advance, judging by how slow the closure process is I imagine this has contributed to the delay in closing cases, something I will be asking Grant Thornton when I finally get some response from them.
Interesting point about calling a variation meeting - these are charged at £850 a pop n my proposal. The meeting to reclaim vat could wipe out any benefit to creditors!
My understanding is that IPs are unlikely to charge a fee for their time in recovering the VAT but they will take their usual percentage once the refund has been received.
An ex-Supervisor of an IVA can still distribute VAT monies received after the case is closed in their capacity as Trustee. HMRC has made it very clear that they will not entertain IPs being unjustly enriched as a result of the VAT reclaim, but fees will be charged as this whole exercise has taken a lot of time to sort out for us all - but the level of fees can only be agreed by creditors.
I feel for you and your fellow IPs Mel as much as for the people in ivas who are caught up in this. After your time has been accounted for and creditors cut your fees to the bone, I can't see there being a lot in this for anyone in most cases. It's almost farcical for a couple of hundred quid extra to be split among multiple creditors.
Thanks for the reply Melanie, if I've understood it correctly the VAT issue should not stop IP's closing cases which confuses me as Grant Thornton told me they could not close my case due to this. I appreciate HMRC will not entertain IP's being enriched from the VAT issue but they will accept fees for time spent by the supervisor in resolving the issue.
Vince, I would be amazed if the IP's do not charge for their time spent resolving the VAT issue, a company like GT are not going to spend time on this and not recover fee's they are entitled to.
Broke of London, I am very grateful to my IP as many of us are due to the fact they have helped us through a difficult time but this should not detract from the expectation of a certain level of customer services, ultimately we are paying their fee's in my case £ 5,500. I made my final settlement on 10 June 2011 and have received no correspondence from Grant Thornton since that date, Paymax won their case in June 2011 and guidance was provided by HMRC in September 2011, my whole gripe about this is not the issue itself but the way my IP has dealt with it. I also stand by my previous post that the IP's will charge for their time and this will require a variation meeting that will again delay the closure of my case.
My point was only that this is largely out of GT's hands. There has been conflicting advice from legal counsel and the advice has seemingly changed from month to month depending on creditor expectations and HMRC policy. GT are now closing cases again so you are one of the lucky ones. I understand how unsettling it must be, but everyone is making it up as they go along and absolutely no one is benefiting to a degree which makes the suffering worthwhile, not even the creditors.
Vince, thanks for the update re Grant Thornton now closing cases, it's a shame I have to read it on the forum and not notified by GT which pretty much backs up everything I've been saying about their lack of customer services and keeping their clients informed !!!
Broke of London, I appreciate there may have been conflicting opinions from legal counsel but the HMRC revenue & customs brief 35/11 was issued on 20 Septembet 2011 nearly 6 months ago.
Markspark, I managed to get an email from GT to say that they intend to close my case but like you I had heard nothing to inform me of why it has taken since March 2011 to close my case until only a few weeks ago. I was quoted when I rang the other week that this news about the VAT had been on the forums. Well I'm sorry this is not good enough really as I did only find this forum by chance and I feel GT should have wrote to me or emailed me when this delay was taking place. I now await the next step but I don't hold much hope in it being in the next few weeks.
