font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Andy Davie
Hi
I gues in a nutshell even if you and other IPs are correct in chasing mis-sold PPI it is at the severe detriment of the poor debtor who has fullfilled his or her part of the arrangement only to have the goal posts moved.
First we had the VAT issues holding up completions and now, far far worse, are these PPI issues.
One area that is not discussed or addressed is the financial reward for IPs/IVA companies for chasing claims, how can Joe Public be sure that this is not the driving factor ?
Regards
Hi Andy,
I don't subscribe to the view that it is the poor debtor that suffers and his/her goal posts have moved. The debtor has compromised his claims in respect of what he/she owes, and endeavours to pay back as much as he/she can to his/her creditors.
The PPI mis-selling claim is invariably an asset within an IVA (unless it is specifically excluded) - why then does the debtor suffer?
The financial rewards to a Supervisor will be an extra realisation fee in respect of this asset (like any other asset) coming into the IVA estate and in protocol compliant IVAs this would be 15% in the main.
Regards
David
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
Concerning the quote you have just posted "why then does the debtor suffer?"
Do you not agree that i am now suffering - my last payment was months ago & that if cleardebt had looked into the PPI months before the end of my iva i would by now have my completion certificate & now i would not be suffering at all.
I would love to move house which is now severely affecting my existence but due to not having my cc i cannot do anything.But as you state above "why then does the debtor suffer?"
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by kieser
David,Thanks for your personal reply,unfortunately i still do not understand why Cleardebt do not look into the PPI investigations before their clients come to the end of their IVA.
I am a Cleardebt client & i am absolutely enraged that this has happened.(Ive complied fully with my IVA & now wish to get on with my life without delay)I do not understand how Cleardebt cannot look at their clients list & say something like."These clients are 6 mths from finishing their IVA so we need to contact them & get this PPI sorted before they come to the end of their iva so their Completion certificate is not delayed"
Perhaps im not putting my concerns over correctly but if i had been contacted about the PPI investigations 6 months before the end of my IVA & it had all been sorted before the end of my iva i would have no complains whatsoever & my life would not be on hold as it is today.
Surely there is something Cleardebt can do to ensure the PPI investigations are done & dusted before their clients pay their last payment.
This is not something that has arisen over the last couple of months (PPI),this has been out in the open for at least a year so please understand my personal frustrations for not sorting this out before i finished my IVA.
Perhaps something needs to be put in place to ensure that IPs have to do all investigations into PPI etc etc before there clients pay their last payment.
Many Thanks
I have put into place within ClearDebt procedures to ensure those cases that are coming up to finalisation within 9 months are given maximum priorities.
There will unfortunately be some delays especially from certain creditors reticents that causes this and as previously posted we are looking into a mechanism where we can do a blanket variation to cover this - more later as and when Counsel and Creditors agree to the wording.
In your own case if you have issues please email me direct at david.mond@cleardebt.co.uk and I will investigate.
Regards
David
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
15% is a lot of money when looking at the amounts repaid from ppi! Multiply that by however many IVAs you may be supervising!!!! I would like to ask why some firms are not making it compulsory to claim back ppi and others are threatening bankruptcy should the debtor not "comply"!!
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
On the web site of Cleardebt on the front page is a claim that says:
“Become debt free within 5 years or less with an IVA"
This is where some of the anger arises from; people sign up to an IVA believing that they will be debt free in 5-6 years and free to continue with their lives. The reality is somewhat different!
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
David quote "I don't subscribe to the view that it is the poor debtor that suffers and his/her goal posts have moved. The debtor has compromised his claims in respect of what he/she owes, and endeavours to pay back as much as he/she can to his/her creditors."
I have often praised you on this forum David but, with great respect, you are way out of touch with Joe Public on this one.
I do not dispute that assets have to be realised but the IVA is an agreement on both sides, the debtor signs to agree the terms of the IVA, and there has to be safeguards built in to protect the debtor from a never ending arrangement.
No one in bankruptcy, to my knowledge, has been stopped from automatic discharge after 12 months due to outstanding PPI claims, we need debtors IVAs to conclude within the original time frame and any PPI claims outstanding dealt with after the completion statement issued, however difficult or complex this may be on the part of the IP
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by David Mond
Originally posted by Foggy
Tom Oconnor will be speaking to Heretoday tomorrow, hopefully to agree what he has failed to communicate in all his posts - a level playing field is all that is required.
I am confused, Is Tom calling me tomorrow in 24 hours or on Wednesday in 48 hours?
Is he calling to review my case with a view to closing it? Or is he calling so we can further debate what additional information you want to bring to the public domain such as this forum?
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
I do agree with you and the issues raised by PPI. This subject only became a hot topic in April / May 2011 and to be honest I would say 80% of IPs (As in number not as in those running IVAs) are only just becoming aware of it. I have been speaking with IPs for a year now and you would be amazed at the number who do not realise the issue needs to be dealt with. Some simply are not interested in the issue and one of those is in the top 8 larger firms. Hopefully the guidance being issues in the near future will help.
All views expressed are my own personal views. Without prejudice
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Muggins
15% is a lot of money when looking at the amounts repaid from ppi! Multiply that by however many IVAs you may be supervising!!!! I would like to ask why some firms are not making it compulsory to claim back ppi and others are threatening bankruptcy should the debtor not "comply"!!
15% is what is stated in all our IVA proposals and relates to the relevant realisations including those with equity release on properties.
This is the rate which creditors have adopted under protocol compliant cases since February 2008.
A debtor is obliged to comply with all reasonable requests made by his/her Supervisor.
ClearDebt has over 6,500 live running cases (we are a public company and the information is contained within our Annual Audited Financial Statements)and fortunately no more than a handful have complained.
Regards
David
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Heretoday
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by David Mond
Originally posted by Foggy
Tom Oconnor will be speaking to Heretoday tomorrow, hopefully to agree what he has failed to communicate in all his posts - a level playing field is all that is required.
I am confused, Is Tom calling me tomorrow in 24 hours or on Wednesday in 48 hours?
Is he calling to review my case with a view to closing it? Or is he calling so we can further debate what additional information you want to bring to the public domain such as this forum?
Because you are not reading what I said and are quoting what Foggy said.
I stated:
"Heretoday – as others have said, this is going to be best dealt with away from the forum. I will speak to Tom Oconnor today and organise the review as per the details of the case and Tom will contact you directly within the next 48 hours."
That post was made today.
So - 48 hours from to-day.
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
David that amount makes me think that no wonder you are chasing ppi claims!! I apologise if that sounds cynical but reading the other recent thread whereby claimants whose IVAs have been completed and now keeping any claim must be causing most firms to go into overdrive!! I still am at a loss as to why some IP's threaten bankruptcy for non compliance and others are saying claim if you want to!!
You may be right on your IP numbers Jamie, but in reality the larger firms like DFD. GT, Payplan and ClearDebt have been pursuing PPI for a long time now, and probably got onto the job as quickly as they practically could. Around 90% of IVAs are supervised by firms in the Top 20 of IVA providers (volume based) - my firm being one of them - so your comments are hardly helpful or indicative of the profession as a whole.
I completely agree with David Mond that IPs who do not demonstrate that they have at least considered the commercial benefit to creditors in pursuing these issues run the risk of being deemed to be acting negligently - and those who are not interested in maximising asset recoveries - will have to answer to their regulatory bodies who, thankfully, are now starting to wake up and recognise that important guidance to all members is required. I am involved in such a project with my own regulator right now.
My own legal advice is sufficient to confirm that the IP has a right to pursue claims without the agreement of the debtor, if mis-selling can be demonstrated. What would be helpful is if we could have a process similar to a Scottish Protected Trust Deed, where the debtor could be discharged from the IVA but the IP could continue to pursue assets. I am sure we will all get to a suitable position very soon - but appreciate it is frustrating for clients who feel that the IP is doing this purely for personal gain - which I do not for a minute feel is happening.
In my firm, we have sought extensive and very expensive legal advice on this matter from a leading Counsel in the insolvency world. That advice is comprhensive and addresses my concerns relating to the IVA Protocol and also wider issues - such as asset descriptors and set-off. We keep asking more questions and are not necessarily getting the answers as quickly as we would like - but I do believe that by working together, and sharing the results of our research, trade associations such as the Debt Resolution Forum and the Association of Professional Debt Solution Intermediaries - both of which I am proud to serve on the board as a director - will get that important guidance, and perhaps a change of operating practce, which appears to be needed in certain quarters.
Please don't continue to knock IPs for carrying out their duties.
