IVA paid off, Grant Thornton won't close it

[poi]

I have an IVA with Grant Thornton. It was previoulsy with one of the other bloodsuckers, but it was sold to them a couple of years ago. I made my final IVA payment in April 2012. It had already been extended by around six months as I had been forced to reduce my payments when my circumstances changed. I was delighted to finally get access to my own money again.

I was looking forward to getting my closure notice so that I could finally put this whole painful process behind me. I was told that this could take up to six months. Mad that it take so long, but what could I do? Nothing.

In July 2012, Grant Thornton informed me that they had appointed EIC to pursue PPI claims on my behalf, as it had been decided that money due from a claim should go into my IVA. I was told it was optional. I declined to give permission, as I did not have any PPI.

EIC then contacted me, in spite of my refusing permission for my data to be handed to them. I told them I would not be providing any information as I had no PPI.

Many phone calls from EICV and GT later, and I have had enough. I rang GT this morning asking when my IVA would be formally closed. They can't tell me. Apparently my case will be going into some mass creditor meeting in a few weeks.

I explained that this was unnacceptable as I had made my final payment in April 12, so should have been closed already. But no, as it takes six months to close a case, I am still caught in their web.

They will call me tomorrow about getting my case bumped into a special creditors meeting, but I hold out exactly zero hope of that call happening.

They insist that they had no choice but to claim the PPI, even though the issue didn't arise until after my IVA was paid up.

How can it be fair and legal for them to delay closure like this, seemingly indefinitely?

Does anyone have the name and address of their complaints team? If I get no joy there, I will be off the the Insolvency Service, who are supposed to regulate these bloodsuckers. Is it maybe also worth my bringing a complaint on data protection grounds as I had refused permission for GT to hand my data over?

[Foggy]

Hello, Poi, and welcome.

I appreciate, and share your anger and frustration, but please could you refrain from referring to IP's as Bloodsuckers. Yes, they get paid and recover monies on behalf of the creditors, but you also get a great deal from the arrangement. Anyway .... the GT complaints procedure, copied from one of their mails is thus:


1 If a client expresses unhappiness with the service provided by this firm, then in the first instance the concerns will be dealt with by the manager responsible for the area that gave rise to the complaint and you will receive a formal response in that regard within one month of the date of this letter. Should we require additional time to investigate the matter, you will of course be advised accordingly.

2 If the matter cannot be resolved by the relevant manager, you can then direct your complaint to my designated senior member of staff Mr Paul Madden at Grant Thornton, Waters Edge, Clarendon Dock, Belfast, BT1 3BH.

3 If you continue to be dissatisfied with my firm's response to your complaint, you can then write to Ms Fiona Beighton - the Head of Quality & Risk Management who deals with any complaints arising from the firm's recovery department - at Grant Thornton UK LLP, 30 Finsbury Square, London, EC2P 2YU.

In the unlikely event that my firm is unable to resolve your complaint you can then complain to my regulatory body – the Insolvency Practitioners Association.

[poi]

I'll play nice. Maybe one day GT will do the same instead of delaying things indefinitely.

I remain to be convinced that I got a good deal with my IVA. I have no doubt that going bankrupt would have been a better solution.

Thanks for the address.

[viperboyz]

Im with foggy theres a lot of good IP's out there but from my experiences with GT blood suckers seems an apt name for GT.

They act like the school bully doing as they wish because they bigger than you, disgraceful firm whose only purpose seems to be taking as much money off you and your creditors as possible.
Then refuse to help when you need it.

[geordie123]

I can fully understand your anger . Like you we are waiting for closure . 26 months since our last payment. We were given a special creditors meeting in May where they agreed to allow our case to be closed but here we are in July and still no closure. We have signed everything in order to comply with them and hopefully speed things up but it is still dragging on . I am sure when our certificate arrives it will be announced on news at ten . Good luck

[MelanieGiles]

Hi poi and welcome to the forum

As an impartial and independent "bloodsucker" I'll give you a couple of things to look at which might just escalate your closure

1 Was your IVA for a set duration? If so, it ceases to be a valid contract once that period has expired, meaning that it cannot be varied and limiting your IP's powers. This does not mean that they cannot continue to pursue the PPI, but that this must be done outside of the IVA.

2 Check that the PPI monies are definitely an asset captured under the IVA. There are many IVAs out there which did not include all of a debtor's assets, in which case it would be wrong (my opinion!) to try and persuade you to agree to this retrospectively if your IVA should have closed some time ago.

[Paul.55]

We're in a similar position to the OP, perhaps we can share commiserations?

Here's the rub... 2 year arrangement, extended by 6 months, end date 21st may 2013. 30 payments made, lump sum of £42,586 paid to GT 8th May as clearly stated in two annual reports - total monies held by GT in this arrangement £44,536, against annual report
S of A figure of £35,275. Even assuming the original VAT included fee element of £7000, it is obvious we are in a refund position from GT. This arrangement is a 100p/£ repayment, absolutely no write off amount or F&F settlement figure, I repeat (for GT's attention essentially) a full 100p/£ dividend.

Despite a catalogue (and logged) series of calls and e-mails ( and yes we have contacted Karol!!) the summation of contact from GT with an expression of intent that this is being pursued to completion has been zero, nothing. We received a letter from them 3 days ago, as a result of an I/E review (the words final review have never been communicated to us) that "no additional income is due in this arrangement" considering the above figures I would have thought that to be obvious!!!

After hanging on the phone for 11 mins on Thursday afternoon, I finally got through to an overflow phone service - my understanding is that this is akin to an answering service, and not part of GT per se. At this point steam was emanating from various parts of my physiology, I asked for a senior member to ring me back, or indeed Mark Allen himself - no response as yet. We expect better - the fees we have paid ( not going to pay but have paid ) lead us to believe that it it is not unreasonable to expect an individual, and timely response from GT. I note with interest Foggy's contribution to this thread, I have a feeling that those names will become all to familiar in the near future.

I predict what will happen next, the 21st August will represent 3 months to the day that we cancelled the standing order, and a breach notice will follow. If it wasn't so serious and life un-affirming, it would be hilarious. But believe me, we are far from amused.

Best regards,

Paul.

[viperboyz]

Mark Allen was my IP in the 4 years (out of 6) my IVA was with GT i never ever got talk to him over anything, refused all requests his name is just something they put at the bottom of paperwork i think he dosent exist and is just a figment of GT's imagination when it comes to dealing with thier clients.

[Jules79]

I must say I have read through this thread and what can only be described as 'dread' radiates through my soul! We are already experiencing problems with GT and we are only 16 months in!! Mark Allen is illusive and the ever so helpful Claire who was fantastic has now moved department's meaning that we have to go through the whole GT mess up again!
My question is 'Can we change firms?' I really wish I had known about you Melanie before I entered into the IVA.
I really must try and sleep at some point but I'm fuming, we have been inundated with calls from EIC too, we have answered their questions accepted the new amendments etc yet they still keep calling cos they need to speak with hubby who I have told them on several occasions works until 5.30pm each day yet they insist on calling at 12pm or 4.30pm, we have sent his letter signed back to them accepting amendments etc but apparently they need verbal consent over the phone as well?
I understand that its from our own doing however we are trying our best to rectify the situation yet are being stressed out to the max on their behalf. Surly something should be being done about this? Would this behaviour be accepted if it was by another type business? I think not. Maybe they are hooking on to the fact that lots of people are trying to maintain their self respect/dignity and know we won't make a fuss for fear of drawing attention to ourselves? Goodness knows I feel like I could fight a Lion after reading through other peoples comments and treatment. We're in Hell I tell ya or someone has it in for us...

[Paul.55]

I think Jules raises a number of important points, which I'd like to personally expand on. It is possible to dismiss Counsel at any stage of legal proceedings, why not IP's? I would have thought that the £7000 we have paid in fees entitles us to a minimum level of service. If our perceptions lead us to believe that the IP is not giving us the bespoke attention we feel the levels of fees warrant, do we have a legal remedy to transfer the arrangement to another IP?

If we too had known of Melanie's approach some three years ago, I have the distinct impression that our experiences would have been very different indeed. I single Melanie out for her contribution to this public platform, obviously there are other IP's here who give sterling service, but I have been most impressed by the candour, pragmatism, and professionalism of this individual.

Jules, I also don't under-estimate your description of this miasma as hell-like. The real difficulties you are experiencing are palpable in your post, we can identify with you. The way I'm trying to synthesise the real difficulties this has brought to our lives, is that eventually we will have a survivors tale that may, just may, be useful to people going through similar agonies. Scant use to Us all at the moment I accept, but a powerful idea nonetheless.

Best wishes to all.

[MelanieGiles]

Guys

I would love to be able to take over your cases - and would willingly do so - but the legislation surrounding IVAs is different in that on top of a professional relationship between IP and client, there is also a contractual one as well. This makes it very difficult to change IPs, but not impossible. If the existing IP refused to be released from the case, then a Court application would be necessary and this could be costly for someone in an IVA.

Most IPs would also be very wary of taking over another firm's cases, without completing very detailed due diligence. I have taken over portfolios from other firms in the past, and it can be very troublesome and costly. The existing IP may have drawn substantial fees in the early days, leaving little in the case for an incoming IP to be renumerated from - and creditors may be reluctant to agree to higher fees being charged - although we do see these in the massive case transfers we have experienced over the last few years.

I am continually asked this question however, and I am going to undertake some research into this just to see whether there is a mechanism which could be invoked to deal with unhappy clients. We have them very occasionally in my firm too!

At the end of the day GT must be doing something right, because they are processing new applications for IVAs on a monthly basis probably in the region of 300, whereas in my firm we only do around 30 but would love to do more.

[Foggy]

It would be an interesting exercise to examine where these 300 cases per month are being referred from -- I would guess that many are from creditors, CAB and Stepchange.

[Paul.55]

Again I find myself agreeing with the nuances of Foggy's thread. I am in the process of drawing to the CAB's attention at senior levels (our referrer) just what the realities are of placing their vulnerable clients with these agencies. I believe, rather than a crusade-like expression of antipathy, it is congruent with the CAB's ethos of client empowerment through accurate information.

[Noodles]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles

Hi poi and welcome to the forum

As an impartial and independent "bloodsucker" I'll give you a couple of things to look at which might just escalate your closure

1 Was your IVA for a set duration? If so, it ceases to be a valid contract once that period has expired, meaning that it cannot be varied and limiting your IP's powers. This does not mean that they cannot continue to pursue the PPI, but that this must be done outside of the IVA.

2 Check that the PPI monies are definitely an asset captured under the IVA. There are many IVAs out there which did not include all of a debtor's assets, in which case it would be wrong (my opinion!) to try and persuade you to agree to this retrospectively if your IVA should have closed some time ago.

I was originally with Blair Endersby and I signed up to a 60 month IVA GT took over with 3-4 months left of that agreement and I haven't paid anything since the end of the 60month period but I am still tied into an IVA. My original paperwork states my house wasn't part of the IVA and after GT took over it suddenly was included.

I'm sorry but GT seem to have gone against everything you have said.

Also my IP is Mark Allen and I too have never heard or had any direct communication from him. I have emailed him directly without getting a response.

[Pennyless]

Noodles

"My original paperwork states my house wasn't part of the IVA and after GT took over it suddenly was included."

They cannot do this unless you signed to agree which most would'nt.

Get yourself to the CAB or a Solicitor.