longer able to make our minimum monthly payments

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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:46 pm
stt Yes I personaly know a fair bit about sell and rent back companies and the honest answer is don't...

The problem with most of the agreements is that they rent back to you on a shorthold tenancy agreement and can evict you from your own house after only 6 months.

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Soulgrowth

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Post by Soulgrowth » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:46 pm
stt ... there's a discussion goin on here at the moment about sell and rent back companies ... not sure if this link will work http://www.iva.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6304

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tracy.h

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Post by tracy.h » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:48 pm
Stt
if you look at todays posts theres one there about renting your property back by bagpuss worth a read.
Andrew do you think it is realistic to lend 5 times your joint income.

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Andrew Graveson

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Post by Andrew Graveson » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:50 pm
stt - the max you can borrow might depend on affordability issues, and a mortgage broker really should take this into consideration as well before making a recommendation.
The lender may factor in commitments such as credit cards, loans, or IVA payments as well as your salary before reaching a figure.
There's been lenders until very recently offering up to 10 x salary -that doesn't make it the right thing to do though.
All down to unique personal circumstances and contacting a broker, perhaps a new broker in your case, may help to inform you further.

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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:53 pm
Andrew the realistic income multiples used in situations like this in my opinion should not exceed 3.25% - obviously, this is to take into consideration future affordability issues. My ‘point’ is poor stt has been miss advised his current mortgage product using self cert where is income was grossly exaggerated!

I can obtain products where the income multiples will go to 6 x income on 2 , 3 and 5 year fixed, but it would be a cold day in hell, before I would advise and recommend an applicant to take one, except where the initial affordability issues where going to change for the better in the very near future.


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Andrew Graveson

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Post by Andrew Graveson » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:55 pm
Hi Tracy,

I think yes, it's realistic if it's affordable. If other commitments (credit, family etc) make it unaffordable then clearly no.

Brokers and lenders are required to assess affordability as part of their process.

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Andrew Graveson

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Post by Andrew Graveson » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:06 pm
Hi Mike,
Similar point in response to your post. I don't think (for me) that working to a standard income multiple (like 3.25) as being the ideal works. Take the case of two people earning £30000. On has £20k on credit cards and a non-working partner looking after two children. The other is single with no credit commitments.
Take a £150000 (5 x income) interest-only mortgage with an interest rate of 6%. The monthly payment is £750.
Could the family with credit commitments pay that? Might be difficult.
Could the single person without commitments afford that? Maybe.
Is the single person planning on settling down and having children soon? If so then caution required, if not then perhaps the mortgage is viable.
Unique situations aren't dealt with well using arbitrary multiples.

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bagpuss

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Post by bagpuss » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:06 pm
i know how you feel hun, our house is nothing special but its our home and i would have hated to have lost it.

There must be something, someway that you could keep your home...what about a 3rd party....? is there such a scheme...?

Angie xx


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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:32 pm
Andrew Yes, I totally agree.

Please go back and read my post I said “the basic quick calculation would be amount divided x 3.25 “ and then I said: “the realistic income multiples used in situations like this in my opinion should not exceed 3.25%”

Key words “quick basic “and “situation like this” I can only go on the information given.

The topic of my input was and is to do with fraudulent self cert. The thematic studies of the FSA of the last two years into self cert says just because a product exists, it does not mean it’s right to use it. Affordability should be assessed at point of recommendation and should be on an individual basis according to the applicants needs, wants and circumstances.

Another question would be why have you exampled interest only? On a repayment mortgage the payments would be 978, (53% of income). With an additional 1% rise in interest rates this would mean an additional 95 (58% of income) a month. You can only assess affordability with all the information to hand, for example attitude to risk, method of repayment, future changes in circumstances etc. etc.

Yes, there are lenders that will offer higher multiple, but should they be used – for interest only self cert where the income is questionable or in fact should 5 x income even be used at all !

Sorry, stt back to you, Soulgrowth has given you some brilliant advice and hopefully you are now considering seeking IP advice.

If you need to discuss your mortgage requirements please discuss it fully with an authorised mortgage broker, you really need to get a second opinion, but as previously stated I wouldn't worry too much about remortgaging at the moment - concentrate on getting that advice.

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Andrew Graveson

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Post by Andrew Graveson » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:42 pm
Hello Mike - Exampled interest-only for no other reason than providing an example. The same logic on affordability today and tomorrow holds whatever the mortgage type. I don't think anyone would disagree that 51% or 58% of income are very high. I agree 100% on your point about just because a mortgage product exists it doesn't make it right to use it; see my reply to stt a few posts ago. Got to be careful on this self-cert issue. Fraud is clearly of concern to everybody in the financial chain but for the majority of applicants it provides a perfectly honest route to an appropriate and affordable mortgage.

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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:46 pm
Fraud is clearly of concern to everybody in the financial chain but for the majority of applicants it provides a perfectly honest route to an appropriate and affordable mortgage.
[;)] Andrew, I don't think you meant this quite the way it sounds... LOL

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Andrew Graveson

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Post by Andrew Graveson » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:51 pm
I can see how you have read it! Pleased to have put a smile on your face. The "it" referred to self-cert which I suspect deep down you guessed.
Have a good weekend

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tracy.h

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Post by tracy.h » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:55 pm
Thank you Andrew for your reply,i just don't think some mortgage lenders(all who post on here not included) actualy look at affordability,Like nr lending 5,6 x salary and after posting on here for many months now the people who have aquired unrealistic mortgages end up in dire straights,myself included.
I was desperate when nr offered us £155000 mortgage and £30000 unsecured loan on a joint income of £39500 i had multiple credit cards and honestly believed i would be better of.Sadly for us my health deteriated and i had to cut my hours at work so income dropped,i know it was our desicion to take on the commitment but on our earnings if they had done a proper credit search and seen how much we already owed then surely they have to take some of the blame.
For many like me its desperation that makes you except unrealistic credit.

Tracy
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:55 pm
[:D] Andrew. Yes I did, but it was worth a laugh. Have a good weekend...

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Last edited by mikebdomain on Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Graveson

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Post by Andrew Graveson » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:05 pm
Hi Tracy,
I'm sorry to hear of the difficulty caused by the loan and the circumstances surrounding your health.
I wouldn't like to comment on the circumstances of your particular mortgage but it's clear that with high income multiples available the potential for problems increases.
Within our debt management business we've seen personal loans charging interest rates of 55%. Your point on financial pressure making otherwise unattractive arrangements seem like a good idea is certainly repeated on a wide scale.
I'm not sure if I've got the answers to that but a combination of good well-regulated advisors/lenders and wider financial education/information would be a great starting point.
I wish you luck as you resolve your own situation.

Andrew Graveson
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Andrew Graveson
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