I was slightly confused with your comments about a service invaliding pension being slightly less than your normal pension. You will still be entitled to the terminal grant and pension but both of these should actually be slightly more than you would have received normally -so I am a bit lost as to what you mean there - I think you may have misuderstood the wording in you letter somewhere along the line.
In respect of payment everybody thinks these payments are payable immediately and expect the money to be in their account on the day they leave service. The form certainly said this when I was in office (and I dont expect the MOD has changed the wording on it) but in actual fact it is an old form and now that each service does not pay the money themselves individually(it is authorised by and paid centrally by Kentigern House in Glasgow) it can actaully take anything up to six weeks to be processed and credit your account !!!!.
Your pension is paid by Paymaster General in Sussex they start this again when Kentigern House have authorised it. If you do not recive confirmation of this from Paymaster within 3 weeks of your discharge date I would ring them up and start chasing it 0845 1212514.
The downside of all this of course is that your terminal grant 'a payment granted by HM the Q under royal warrant in recognition of your service defending the realm' is strictly a windfall and your monthly pension is strictly income, whether they are titled invaliding grants or invaliding pensions or not and will have to be declared to your IP.
I am sure one of the experts will no doubt confirm this is the case and depending on the amount you receive 'lets say hypothetically you are at least sergeant' £30,000 terminal grant (more if you commute) and £750 per month pension them a full and final settlement to your IVA (depending on how much you owe)is probably a realistic suggestion.
The IP experts on the forum cannot possibly give Daz direct advice, as we do not know sufficent data about his/her own case - and to do so on a live forum would not be ethical. Suffice to say that it would be sensible to take direct and specific advice soon about options available.
Thanks again greedfighter for the fantastic advice. I have gained more knowledge in the last few days than all the time I have been trying to talk to Glasgow. Its not as if I am the only serviceman who has been medically discharged after completing more than 22 years!!!
Let me clarify what I mean about receiving less:
Before my medical discharge I would have got something in the region of 45K grant (commuted) and a 8k pension. After med discharge I am to receive 33K and an 11K SIP. I know this probably balances out but apart from the war pension which is £240 a month I am no better off than I would have been if I'd walked out fully fit, and thats with an assesement of 40%. To make matters worse I had an earmaking attachment for my ex wife as we divorced 9 years ago. She was to get 25% of my grant and pension and this is to be paid out of my medical stuff. On a 45K terminal grant she would realise around 11K and 2K pension and although now her pension is higher she is threatening legal action as she about 3K short on the terminal grant. The plot thickens.
Do you know if I will receive any other service terminal grant/pension so I can pay off my ex-wife?
On the other subject I have received a form with my sick days off annotated but no-one told me what to do with this. In fact because I have a job to go to do I really need to. The whole thing with the military was a joke, after the med board at Henlow I was told to go away and some one would be in touch in due course. I didn't know they meant just vague letters with little explaination. To top it all if you phone Glasgow they can take two weeks to answer a simple question!!! I have phoned the VA and have set up a meeting with their welfare service, hopefully they can help as much as you have.
With regards to my IVA I am still none the wiser, I suspect even with all the figures before them (and to be honest the figures shouldn't matter here) I get the feeling that the experts wouldn't be able to give clear advice and yet again ones IP decision would be different from another. So, are we down to sheer luck? Dont get me wrong I didnt want to be discharged medically I had 7 years left and I have 3 left on my IVA. I am paying back as much as I can,(after getting stuck with a load of debts post seperation from my ex) and am releasing a large amount of equity in year 4 and thought my pension would help me for the future. Now although I have a job I dont know how long i will be able to work for and I was hoping that I could put something away for those bad days.
If anyone can call a medical grant a windfall, which by definition is "a gain" then I dont think I have gained anything for my disabilty from the service. I am just trying to safeguard my future in these worrying times.
Melanie, you said it would be unethical to give advice on the forum, would there be any benefit in me e-mailing you directly??
Dazh, here is the information it is a form Fmed 1017 it counts towards both Disability Living allowance and Incapacity benefit.
I have also checked and copied this extract from the DWP website for you (to make sure it is still relevant) :
Special rules if you are discharged from the Armed Forces :
Certain individuals who are discharged from the Armed Forces may claim Incapacity Benefit once they have left the Forces. As the rate of Incapacity Benefit paid is dependant on the duration of the incapacity, these individuals may need to declare periods of absence from duty because of sickness or disability to the DWP if the periods of absence occurred in the 8 weeks prior to discharge.
For claims made for periods commencing on or after 5 May 2003 the DWP will count periods for which ex service personnel were deemed unfit for duty whilst in the Armed Forces towards the higher rates of Incapacity Benefit. HM Forces will complete and give Servicemen and women form FMed1017 to show all periods of absence from duty prior to discharge.
The DWP will count up to a maximum of 28 weeks of absence from duty because of sickness or disability. These periods need not be continuous but must be separated by periods back on duty lasting no longer than 8 weeks.
Sorry Melanie - I realise of course that the experts can't give direct advice for the reasons mentioned - I meant 'general pointers' - perhaps I didnt word it very well (it was late at night).
Hi Dazh, I cant advise you about the exact figures since I dont have the letters in front of me (so I dont know what the figures represent or how they have been calculated) and I dont know your particular service history, engagement, rank etc etc. Also because I have not done the job for two years allowances and figures will have changed etc.
If you have an 'earmarking order' its possible that the figures you have been given, are the sums you will receive after the money has been paid to your wife for example. Im no law expert but I would have thought that the MOD would have received this and would have to deduct it and pay it direct to the beneficiary before paying it to you, so this is a possibility.
And of course you are receiving more than anyone leaving the service would do normally - for starters you are getting an extra £240 per month by way of war pension and some of these elements of your money will be tax free - this is not the case for anyone leaving normally !
I'd be happy to discuss this with you via e-mail, but the advice will still be general rather than specific. I am also ex-forces, so I do have some understanding of the issues you are discussing above. It would also be helpful to know which IP firm you are with.
I appreciate everyones kind comments but think it is important at this juncture to clarify a few things:
(a) My knowledge of this subject comes from the fact that I was the manager for one of the services medical boards for survey and invaliding for the last 4 years of my service (I was a medic). I left the service just over two years ago. Now that the medical services are tri- service I knew the procedures etc for the other two and also the routines for the DWP and Veterans Agency.
(b) It is important to realise that in two years things change and i have no knowledge of what those changes have been so any info i post has to be taken with that in mind.
(c) Melanie kindly stated that I was a obviously a recognised expert - unfortunately I disagree. Melanie is an 'expert', Ian is an 'expert' they have proffessional qualifications and are accredited for what they do. I simply have the benefit of having done the job. I have no professional qualification specific to this subject and I am not now employed in any area of work related to this subject.
(d) Whilst I am happy to share any knowledge I have either here or on any forum - Any comments or advice I post on the subject should not be taken as exact - as always you should obtain proper professional advice from a 'qualified' professional or someone 'employed' or 'current' in that subject area.
Hi dazh, I don’t wish to be rude but the general advice I can give you is now a bit limited..I don’t know your exact circumstances and I don’t wish to hijack the forum on one particular issue. Suffice as to say that the pensions and grants are quite complicated (I could spend days on it). Quite simply it works like this :
If you leave the service normally:
(a) You will get a terminal grant tax free and an occupational pension.
(b) The terminal grant is 3 times the pension.
(c) The pension is taxable.
(d) You can commute some of the pension in favour of a lump sum.
(e) The pension becomes index linked when you reach age 55.
If you are invalided :
(a) You will receive the normal terminal grant and pension but these are retitled invaliding pension, invaliding grant etc. You can still commute.
(b) Your Personnel Office inform Glasgow of your leaving date and Glasgow will pay you your normal terminal grant and inform Paymaster to pay your normal pension. These are paid initially on a non attributable condition basis.
(c) If you have an earmarking order or pension order Glasgow will deduct this from your terminal grant and pay it direct to the beneficiary, similary Paymaster will deduct any sum from your pension before paying it to you.
(d) The RAF Medical Board will then send your paperwork to Glasgow who in turn will then send it to the Veterans Agency to assess your level of disability.
(e) The Veterans Agency assess your level of disability and you will then receive a war pension, this is tax free.
(f) The Veterans Agency then send their decision back to Glasgow who in turn send it to the Armed Forces Pension Scheme who then finalise the decision on attributability and top up your pension and terminal grant accordingly.
(g) The Pension Scheme notify Glasgow and Paymaster who then readjust the figures and pay you any top up of your terminal grant Paymaster similarly adjust the figures and pay any arrears of pension.
(h) If you meet the criteria your pension becomes index linked immediately and if it becomes tax free you can them claim any tax back that you have paid on it.
As you can see this is complicated and all takes time to sort out since lots of government departments are involved. I would suggest that you don’t rely on any figures you have been given as final since they depend on who has given them to you, and at what stage in the process they have been given or are based upon.
I can assure you that you will be better off either by way of additional top ups to your terminal grant or pension, by way of receiving an additional war pension, early index linking or the tax free elements you receive. All these benefits are not available to those leaving the service normally!!!!.
Whilst I note that Melanie has said that you can correspond with her by email I am sure she will back me up in saying :
(a) You need to keep a close liason with your IP.
(b) I would suggest that rather rely on expectations you stick to telling your IP how much terminal grant and pension you are actually receiving when you actually get it.
(c) You update him with new figures when they actually change.
Whilst it would be nice to think you could keep all of this money your terminal grant is strictly a windfall and your pension income. Your creditors and the armed forces are not responsible for your divorce predicament and your creditors are not responsible for your medical predicament.
Meanwhile if you are having real problems with Glasgow try speaking to Haydn Pritchard on 0141 224 2609 who is responsible for Service Delivery Complaints but I would give them at least 8 weeks to sort it all out and come up with final figures etc.
I don’t intend to post any more on this unless any new specific issue is raised which I may be able to help with.
Sorry I've not been on the forum over the weekend so I've only just seen this thread.
Excellent and highly informative postings from greedfighter which make perfect sense. I echo greedfighters and Melanies thoughts here, we can only really give you general pointers. Typically pain and suffering isn't going to be a windfall (in Bankruptcy "after-acquired property) but compensation for loss of earnings or earning ability will be. Certainly any monthly pension payment will be income for the purposes of your IVA. So, most likely, will any additional state benefits to which you become entitled. However, I think you will only get a firm answer from your own IP as so much will depend on what your IVA proposal and any modifications thereto say.
I can see that there are substantial sums at stake here. It may make sense for you ask an insolvency lawyer to look at the Service paperwork and your IVA documentation to fully assess your situation. Certainly if your Supervisor doesn't tell you what you want to hear that could be your next step.
Another possibility is that if you become entitled to significant additional benefits that would be exempt from bankruptcy in the context of an Income Payments Order but not the IVA, that might just tip the scales and render the IVA to be no longer in your interests. So that's something else to consider. Again, follow greedfighters advice and ascertain precisely what you are entitled to before taking any decision.
Ian
Ian Millington
Insolvency Director
PDHL Ltd (formerly Personal Debt Helpline Ltd) www.pdhl.co.uk
I wasnt going to post again but overall from the information supplied you are looking at somewhere in the region of :
33k terminal grant tax free (3 x pension)
11k annual pension (taxable but could become tax free)
17k approx lump sum on top if you commute your pension (max 18 months worth of pension value).
240 per month war pension.
Take off any payment from terminal grant earmarked to your wife and also minus any portion of pension which she can have (including any portion of commuted sum).
Terminal grant and pension commutation usually paid seperately direct to your bank, but both at the same time, once authorised any time up to 6 weeks after you leave.
War pension paid directly to your bank monthly.
Service pension paid monthly direct to your bank once authorised.
The figures you have been given look about right if I assume you are a sergeant at the top end of the payscale or a flight sergeant at the bottom end.
Good luck daz and more than anything I hope it all gets sorted out quickly and doesnt drag on.
