I just cannot get my head around the whole scenario.
Is there an IP on here at the moment who can explain why this statement about failing my IVA and making me bankrupt after 4 years 8 months absolutely hassle-free in the arrangement has been inserted into a proposal that is SUPPOSED TO ENSURE THAT IT SUCCEEDS????
Last edited by brokebryn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
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I think they generally are, but did it specifically state that it should be removed in the variation proposal that you put forward to your creditors? Nothing to that effect in mine.
Yes it was included. If they had not accepted the variation then it stated "contributions to continue in accordance with the original agreement otherwise the IVA will fail without a further creditors meeting", which in effect meant bankruptcy as the original agreement required equity release which I couldn't get.
If it gives you any peace of mind, my equity release was due to be £38k and I ended up paying about ½ of that over and additional 12 months.
Four creditors voted, First Direct & Max Recovery voted in favour, Capital One and Amex voted against. Approx 35% (by value) of creditors didn't vote.
Last edited by vince666 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This, Vince, is how I understood variations to work .... if not accepted you reverted to the original agreement. Not good, I admit, but at least it gives you some time to investigate alternatives, such as the one Michael has suggested, rather than dropping the axe there and then !
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
Well, Quite. There is not much chance of that. The prospect of this failing now will surely fundamentally blacken the reputation of IVAs as viable debt solutions for people in my position. I still don't understand it. If I were one of my creditors I would consider that the IP was effectively presenting me with an ultimatum - accept the variation offered or get a minimal return once the bankruptcy costs are taken out. Unfortunately I am the one who will really get it in the neck if they don't accept the variation. It's such a crock of ****, I am speechless!!!!!
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
Minimum dividend criteria set by creditors at the outset of an IVA are daft - because they take no account of the variables that can occur during the life of an IVA which may prevent such return. Make sure that your IP specifically includes provision for this to be removed in the terms of variaiton - ambiguity on this point is not necessary and it is easily removed in my experience.
I have been told that there is no need for this to be specifically mentioned in the proposed variation because if the creditors accept the latter, they are ipso facto acknowledging that the minimum dividend will not be met.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
For clarity there should be a resolution put in the variation! While I agree that it does in effect follow I cannot understand why your IP will not just ask for the minimum dividend requirement to be removed! It keeps everything simple and leaves nothing open to interpretation.
Brokebryn. If you want details of the product that is available you can contact me directly as I am not sure if I can publish the information on the Forum. I know ourselves, DFD and others have used this firm and their product and the success rate has been excellent at variation time.
The suggestion has been mooted elsewhere on here that the proposed course of action to bankrupt me forthwith if the creditors do not accept the variation is actually being driven by creditors. I feel sick. Have you got a personal email I can get you on?
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
Michael, this product ... is it a short term secured loan that can relatively easily be converted to a better interest rate as time goes on, or is the borrower tied into a, presumably in the circumstances, high rate ?
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
The rates are not cheap but a lot cheaper than switching the whole mortgage to adverse rates. I have checked out and there are no redemption penalties provided you give a month's notice so within 2 years you could be moving everything down the High Street as no one would ever know you were in debt.
The amounts that can be borrowed are something like £3-50,000 and obviously not suitable for everyone but for some clients it can work.
Sounds like a reasonable solution for older proposals, if the 12 month extension proves not to be an option.
However, I am still of the mind that, if the variation for an extension isn't accepted, the debtor should be allowed to revert to the original agreement, thereby allowing him or her time to arrange an alternative such as this. Not to have the axe fall straight away.
The creditors might take it upon themselves to swing the axe, but I don't think it is in the interests of the debtor for their own IP to be handing that axe to the creditors in the first place !
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
