Mis-sold an IVA

28 posts Page 1 of 2
 
 

K.rt

User avatar
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:31 pm

Post by K.rt » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:28 pm
Hi,
I believe i have been mis-sold an IVA, I have been in my IVA for over a year now and I am still getting no further with my enquiries, My CSA debt has been added into my IVA, but I have recieved a letter from CSA stating that this cannot be added into my IVA or any bankruptcy. I have spoken to my IVA company and they have disagreed saying that my CSA debt is an overpayment so therefore can be added. This has been going on for nearly a year now and I have phoned CSA again today and they are still stating that they will not accept this. I am paying nearly £10,000.00 in my IVA to pay the CSA and my IVA company are not budging. I was managing my debts before this CSA debt arose and did not contemplate an IVA, but when my CSA debt was on top I paniked at the thought of another £10k debt. I agreed to do an IVA on the understanding that I would be debt free at the end of the 5 year period and this is no longer the case. CSA have suspended my debt for the time being, but I am still paying for this through my IVA and at the end of this will still be in 10k debt. Please help
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77167
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:08 pm
Hi,

The CSA are correct - the debt cannot be added to your IVA.

What company are you with?
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

nepensioner

User avatar
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:55 pm
Location:

Post by nepensioner » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:41 pm
Think this has been dealt with before. OP with Freeman Jones and the CSA was paid to them incorrectly, the CSA has already repaid the money to the partner and is now looking for recompense. According to previous posts it looks as if this was dealt with correctly
F & F Accepted 19th Oct 2010
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:50 pm
I don't understand why overpaid CSA should be a creditor in your IVA? Can you explain more about the circumstances?
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77167
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:52 pm
I may well have to stand corrected. I know that CSA payments can't normally be included in IVA or BR.

Hopefully one of the professionals can advise.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:59 am
But overpaid CSA suggests that there is money due back not money due to be paid. We need more information to be able to comment sensibly on this one Jan.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77167
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:40 am
I'll apologise in advance for that. I had just seen CSA debt so assumed it was money the poster owed.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

K.rt

User avatar
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:31 pm

Post by K.rt » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:17 am
Yes I have been on here before and it is still not sorted. It is an overpayment, my ex had overpayed apparently, and CSA have re-paid the money to my ex and I now have to pay them back. Like I say I have spoken to CSA again yesterday and they are not budging and are adament that it will never be included in my IVA and that I still owe them the money which has been suspended for now. I am getting nowhere with this and I am still paying CSA payments to my IVA company and at the end of the 5 year period I will still have the CSA to pay. Where do I go from here?
 
 

sebastiangriffiths

User avatar
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:23 am
Location:

Post by sebastiangriffiths » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:32 am
It may be worth looking at the following case:
Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission v Beesley and Another

This was in March 2010 where the following was held:
Held: Child support debts are excluded as a bankruptcy debt, but not for an individual voluntary arrangement, being included within the definition in section 382(4). The statute appeared to include a deliberate choice not to exclude such debts. The Commission might avoid the consequences of it being concluded that such debts were subject to the IVA by attending and voting. It had chosen not to do so.
However, the scheme failed to recognise the particular character of the debt, and the scheme was therefore unfair and was set aside.
Child Support Act 1991 Insolvency Act 1986 s. 263(3) s. 382(4)
Cases Cited: Department of Social Security v Butler CA 1995; in Re Bradley-Hole (A Bankrupt) ChD 1995; Kehoe, Regina (on the Application of) -v- Secretary of State for Work and Pensions HL 2005; Re A Debtor (No.488 IO of 1996), JP v A Debtor ChD 1999;
[2010] EWHC 485 (Ch) 11-Mar-10 Bailii Link
 
 

sebastiangriffiths

User avatar
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:23 am
Location:

Post by sebastiangriffiths » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:36 am
However this was then appealed in November:


ICLR Home

Home | WLR Daily | ICREs | Publications | Mooting | Search | Prices | About ICLR
WLR D Menu - Latest Cases | Subject Matter Search | Monthly Archive | Court Reference Abbreviations | About WLR Dailys

""

BANKRUPTCY — Voluntary arrangement — Approval by creditors — Non-resident parent in arrears as to child support and having other debts — Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission not attending creditors’ meeting endorsing debtor’s individual voluntary arrangement — Whether commission having status as creditor capable of voting on, or being bound by, voluntary arrangement — Whether commission having standing to seek to have approval of voluntary arrangement set aside — Insolvency Act, s 260(2)(b), 262(1)
Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission v Beesley and another
[2010] EWCA Civ 1344; [2010] WLR (D) 304

CA: Ward, Etherton, Tomlinson LJJ: 26 November 2010

The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission was not a creditor of a non-resident parent of a child, who was in arrears as to payment of child support and had other debts, and was therefore not capable of being bound by his individual voluntary arrangement within the meaning of s 260(2)(b) of the Insolvency Act 1986.
The Court of Appeal so stated when, inter alia, (i) allowing the appeal of the claimant, the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, from a decision of Judge Pelling QC who, sitting as a judge of the Chancery Division at Manchester District Registry on 11 March 2010 [2010] 2 FLR 164, had dismissed its claim pursuant to s 263(3) of the 1986 Act for a declaration that the first defendant, Mark Beesley (the supervisor of the individual voluntary arrangement (“IVA”) of the second defendant, Darren Whyman who was a non-resident parent in arrears as to child support and having other debts), had erred in deciding that the commission had been entitled to vote at a creditors’ meeting of 11 March 2009 (which the commission had not in fact attended) and had declared that the commission was a creditor capable of being bound by an IVA within the meaning of s 260(2)(b) of the Act; and (ii) allowing the second defendant’s cross-appeal against the judge’s order pursuant to s 262 of the Act revoking the IVA on the ground that it was unfairly prejudicial to the interests of the commission within the meaning of s 262(1) of the Act.
S 260(2) of the Act provided: “ The approved arrangement— (a) takes effect as if made by the debtor at the meeting, and (b) binds every person who in accordance with the rules — (i) was entitled to vote at the meeting (whether or not he was present or represented at it), or (ii) would have been so entitled if he had had notice of it, as if he were a party to the arrangement”.
ETHERTON LJ said that it was only possible to make sense of the provisions of Part VIII of the Insolvency Act 1986, against the statutory background of the insolvency regimes of bankruptcy and debt relief orders, the discernible policy of the state in relation to the support and welfare of children, the purpose of an IVA and its function as a consensual agreement of creditors (bound by the decision of the requisite majority), if the creditors entitled to participate in the IVA, and who were bound by it, were restricted to creditors with the capacity to make compromises of debts and liabilities; and such a restriction was a necessary implication in the Act. Having had regard, furthermore, to R(Kehoe) v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions [2006] 1 AC 42, In re Bradley-Hole (A Bankrupt) [1995] 1 WLR 1097, Russell v Russell [1999] 2 FCR 137, In re a Debtor (No 488 IO of 1996); JP v A Debtor [1999] 2 BCLC 571, and Smith v Smith [2006] 1 WLR 2024, the conclusion was that the commission was neither a creditor entitled to vote at the creditors’ meeting called to consider the proposal for the second defendant’s IVA nor capable of being bound by the IVA, because the commission was not capable of compromising the second defendant’s liability in respect of arrears of child support. There would be substituted a declaration that the commission was not a creditor of the second defendant capable of being bound by his IVA within the meaning of s 260(2)(b) of the Act. Furthermore, the judge’s order as to unfair prejudice was to be set aside on the ground that, since the commission was not a creditor for the purpose of the second defendant’s IVA, it had no standing to apply to set aside the approval of the IVA.
TOMLINSON and WARD LJJ agreed.
 
 

K.rt

User avatar
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:31 pm

Post by K.rt » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:08 pm
where do i go from here?
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77167
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:25 pm
I've no idea K.rt - I'll keep this bumped up so hopefully one of the experts can advise further.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

RHB

User avatar
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:27 pm
Location:

Post by RHB » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:09 pm
Can't you query it with the CSA as surely it was their mistake as to why you were overpaid in the first place?
 
 

kallis3

User avatar
Forum Expert
Posts: 77167
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by kallis3 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:18 pm
The CSA aren't budging though according to an earlier post on here.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley.
http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
 
 

MelanieGiles

User avatar
Industry Expert
Posts: 47612
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am
Location:

Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:41 pm
Get your IP to give Mark Beesley - the IP referred to in these cases a call. Mark is a widely respected IP, who has the added advantage of also being qualified as a barrister as well. I don't know the answer to your question, but Mark most certainly will and I am sure would be happy to chat through with your own IP.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
28 posts Page 1 of 2
Return to “the hot hot IVA topics in 2007, 20 replies plus”