font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles
The point about whether PPI is an asset has long been explained on the forum in a number of posts, however just to clarify:-
1 A PPI mis-selling claim is an asset which existed at the time the IVA was accepted.
2 Not all PPI mis-selling claim assets are included in IVA proposals, but even if not defined they may be included under "all-asset" provisions. This is crucial to determining whether an IP is entitled to the money, or whether it remains with the debtor.
3 A claim should not be made unless the original borrower believes that they were sold the PPI inappropriately, under duress or as an express term of obtaining the loan.
Hi Melanie,
I guess this is where your definitions differ from those of GT (I say GT as most of the problems at the moment seem to stem from GT and the "spotty" letter).
I am with GT and got a copy of the letter and the basic gist is that they are putting undue pressure on people to sign up to an agreement whereby their "preferred" PPI chaser makes claims on your behalf whether you felt you were miss sold or not.
The pressure they use is to say they will delay completion if you fail to comply, as most people want to achieve completion as quickly as possible they go ahead and sign even though they may not agree....
I hear what you say nickjohn, but at the end of the day it is for those people affected by the "spotty letters" to challenge them if they see fit. I can understand people signing them simply to get their cases closed - and whether the asset is included or not, it should have been, but at the time when many of these proposals were written, the prospect of banks paying compensation for mis-sold products was probably a mere twinkle in the sky.
If anyone is in any doubt as to whether their IP is acting unfairly, I recommend that legal action is sought.
1 A PPI mis-selling claim is an asset which existed at the time the IVA was accepted.
If you did not have a claim on going or know anything about a potential claim at the start of the IVA how can it be an asset at the start of the IVA. When we started our IVA we had no claims on going nor did we have any knowledge of how to claim. Any money we had paid for insurance was a cost we accepted as part of borrowing money in the same way as house insurance and car insurance.
At what point did the IP's start to force people to make PPI claims as part of the completion process, from what I see PPI claims have been coming through for some time yet its only a recent thing that people are coming under pressure...
Just because you did not know of the existence of the potential claim - ie asset, this is no defence to why it was not thought about, envisaged or included - hence why the "all-assets" provision is so powerful.
If there was no thought of potential PPI as a specific asset, nor the inclusion of "all-assets" provisioning, some lawyers believe that the IP may be just as culpable as you for omitting the issue. A compromise between IP and client, may well be the best way of dealing with this - and this is certainly the approach I am adopting in my practice.
I don't think that any IPs out there are forcing their clients to make claims - but I can only really speak for my own practice. If there are IPs out there who are "forcing", they should tread with caution as the draft regulatory guidance - due out on Friday this week - makes it clear that this should not happen.
Here is another one for you (sorry to keep going on), you say that a PPI claim is an asset whether claimed or known about at the time of the IVA.
Within the bowels of my original documentation we have found the clause:
"The proposal requires that you pay over to myself any assets that are acquired by you after the 26th Feb 2010 and prior to the conclusion of the arrangements"
As I have only ever seen my own IVA is this a normal clause? My understanding of this clause would be that as the PPI is an asset at the start of the IVA then it need not be handed over and also as soon as we have completed then they cannot chase for any other asset received..
That is an after-acquired asset provision, and therefore not one which covers an asset which was in existence at the time of your IVA - ie a PPI reclaim on a policy which was sold to you prior to entering into an IVA.
So in my opinion that is not an "all-assets" clause - but please take legal advice, remembering that I am not a lawyer and am only expressing my opinion rather than qualified legal advice.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles
That is an after-acquired asset provision, and therefore not one which covers an asset which was in existence at the time of your IVA - ie a PPI reclaim on a policy which was sold to you prior to entering into an IVA.
So in my opinion that is not an "all-assets" clause - but please take legal advice, remembering that I am not a lawyer and am only expressing my opinion rather than qualified legal advice.
Hi Mel,
Within a standard IVA agreement is there a clause which covers liquidating assets. Mine has one saying about family chatels etc and details what my assets are but can't see anywhere which says the IP will liquidate assets during the course of the IVA, which I am assuming is what a PPI reclaim would be as it is an asset at the start of the IVA..
I know I a keep asking you these questions and if you get sick of the same old ones time and time again just say but your feedback is greatly appreciated.
I'd need to see the whole agreement to be able to express an opinion on such a wide area nickjohn. Have you asked your IP to clarify this for you?
IPs generally do not have powers to "liquidate" assets when they are acting as Supervisors of voluntary arrangements, but debtors have duties to hand them over.
I never get sick of answering questions, but do remember my responses are of my own opinion only and should not be taken as legal advice to be relied upon.
font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles
3 A claim should not be made unless the original borrower believes that they were sold the PPI inappropriately, under duress or as an express term of obtaining the loan.
I would agree with you on this point, however not all IPs are as professional as you.
The reality is that you are often forced to make these claims or risk further delays in the closure of your IVA.
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
