Northern Rock goes belly up?

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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:43 pm
Mike
NR have stood head and shoulders above all other creditors in flatly refusing IVAs to such an extent that IPs now,in general,do not bother to propose one if NR have more than 25% of the overall debt.
I just can,t see them changing their stance,infact I can see them hardening.
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Chris.z

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Post by Chris.z » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:07 pm
Hi , I realise that for some time NR have been refusing to engage with IVA's. However, does this mean they petition for Bankruptcy then?? Surely this wouldn't be good for them either??

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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:55 am
Hi Chris
No,NR hope that the debtor will go onto a DMP.
NR have also started to secure unsecured debt following a rejected IVA.
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Andy Davie
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Chris.z

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Post by Chris.z » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:05 am
Hi Andy.
How do you secure unsecured debt?

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Soulgrowth

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Post by Soulgrowth » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:08 am
From my experience ... from a blinkin charging order on my property which has caused no ends of problems!!! [:(!]

Debbie

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sonyse2t5

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Post by sonyse2t5 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:07 pm
NR can't touch people with no assets - they should accept IVA for those with no assets as the DMP could go on for ever.

They have been 'fortunate' so far that those who submitted IVA have assets so they can secure non secured debts to secure status.
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thebear29uk

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Post by thebear29uk » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:51 pm
Hi all

I can totally understand all the posts here where members with NR as a creditor are taking a certain amount of satisfaction in their current predicament.

I think the turn of events is systematic of our tendency to read too much into what is happening and panic. NR were not in financial trouble but merely had a cashflow problem. They could easily have repaid the loan plus interest from the Bank of England.

However by reporting it so extensively this has led to people rushing to withdraw their savings. Seeing those queues forming outside branches reminded me of Argentina but we are not a nation where our banking system is about to crash. It was pointed out to me by somebody in the financial sector that far from taking their money out the investors should have sat tight as, in order to improve their cashflow, NR would most likely improve their savings interest rates going forward.

The outcome now is that although the company remains extremely solvent, due to their share price crashing there is now a real threat of a hostile takeover. Whether or not a new regime will lead to a re-think on their policy over IVA's is debatable as, quite often they are owed significantly more than other creditors due to their together mortgage and charging orders can result in a better return for them.

All that said I'm sure this weekend has been a troubled time for senior executives of NR. Sleepless nights, short tempers around loved ones, worrying about what will happen, stress levels through the roof.

But I understand why this will merit little sympathy on this forum.

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Dave
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Chris.z

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Post by Chris.z » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:26 pm
They might well be solvent but they are struggling otherwise they wouldn't have asked to helped out by the Bank Of England, Cash flow problem it may be but that is poor management.

The reason they will be allowed to survive is because of the ripples it would cause through our economy and through mortgage circles. Remember though the impact this may have interest rates, as has already been mentioned by economists.

I am sure there is little sympathy and yes People borrow money and should pay it back but I am not sure they are following guidelines regarding debt management and I ma sure there has been irrisponsable lending too. Lets not forget that they actually make money usually when lending it!

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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:15 pm
NR current problems are forced on them by events outside their control, not really bad management - namely problems with sub-prime lending in the US and US backers now withdrawing from ALL sub prime markets - their normal backers (US based), would not buy the NR 'mortgage book' this time round - this was not totally unexpected and plans were put in place last month for the Bank Of England to bail them out. The ‘Mortgage Book’ is still there and earning them an income albeit over a much longer period than expected or anticipated.

The media circus that followed; blowing it all out of proportion, and people panicking withdrawing savings, silly move, taking money out. it's the savers that will lose in the end.

The current crisis has nothing to do with the stance NR take against IVA’s or DMP’s, it’s all to do with the way they fund their short term lending requirements. The only difference between NR and another other purely prime or sub prime lender is that they (NR) has a presence in the market as a bank.

NR are very far from insolvent – although, this panic withdrawing may end up harming NR current cahflow shortfalls further and force their shares down even more, leading to attempted buy outs by other institutions.

If there are any lessons to be learned from all this it must be the way Banks, the FSA and the Bank Of England reports this sort of thing to the general public.


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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:01 pm
HI Chris
To secure unsecued debts the creditor obtains a judgement for the oustanding debt and then applies for a charging order.The debtor carries on paying the contractual payments but can no longer seek to have this debt form part of an IVA as the debt is now secured.
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Andy Davie
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Lisa2009

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Post by Lisa2009 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:57 pm
Northern Rock shares plunged by a further 40 per cent in afternoon trading on Monday as the mortgage lender and its regulators prepared to try again to arrange a sale.

As depositors continued to withdraw their savings from Northern Rock – with some reported to have begun queuing as early as 4am on Monday – people familiar with the matter said the bank and its advisers were planning a new push to find a “commercial solution” that would allow it to be sold as a going concern.
http://mrsskint.blogs.iva.co.uk/ 'Our Story'


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Lisa2009

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Post by Lisa2009 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:08 pm
If no buyers come forward, it seems likely Northern Rock’s business will be gradually wound down, effectively leaving it with a shrinking mortgage book as loans are repaid.
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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:29 pm
Damn, there goes my shares...

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Lisa2009

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Post by Lisa2009 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Funnily enough, i was thinking about your shares as i was reading it.
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mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
I was quite pleased I manged to get them for 300.25p and thought that was a real bargain - then they closed today at 289p [:(!] thank god it was only a couple of shares - still I'm still hoping they will go up

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LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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see feedback and testimonials at:
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Last edited by mikebdomain on Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LEYBRIDGE LIMITED
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