Having been to an asset hearing yesterday morning it is so evident that the entire system needs reviewing. There was no duty solictor staff were helpful but unable to advise obviously. Debt is a social problem and needs addressing accordingly. There should be a statuatory process. For instance a special debt type court where all options can be discussed and action decided upon and help available. At present everybody is giving different advice all well intentioned of course. A drug addict can be ordered to attend treatment, so I suggest the court could insist on a debtors report similar to pre sentence criminal reports. As a debtor I am trying to make life changing decisions based on phone calls and leaflets. I did consult a £170.00 per hour solictor but again they can only advise you of your options. I need a case type worker with statuatory powers that both myself and the creditor have to work with. I agree the IP and OR have statuory powers but there should be a step prior to deciding which route to go down Anyway its only a thought.
Hi credit allergy, I think a 'pre-sentence' report IS carried out in the form of a proposal. Its good that everyone has the freedom of choice, to choose which IP they wish to act for them (who incidentally do have a lot of power), however I know from experiences on the forum that some are better than others. I found that my IP company went to great lengths to explain ALL the options available to me given my circumstances and I chose which option would benefit my creditors and myself the most. I don't feel there is an easy option with whatever route is chosen, as they all pose different problems with employment, stigma, rejection, relationship separation, let alone the massive feeling of guilt, failure and complete despair that most of us feel.
As you are aware, the days of debtors prison have gone and therefore the criminal stigma of debt has hopefully died with it (generally anyway, unless of course fraud has taken place), and I would hate for there to be a place where debtors would go publically to get advice. Wouldn't everyone know why you were there? Rather than pay a solicitor, I would give Melanie's team a ring for initial free, professional advice.
Kazzy x
Last edited by Kazzy E on Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is light at the end of that dark tunnel. Promise.
Credit Allergy, I think I have read your post incorrectly and that you are a debtor, therefore you have debts like the rest of us. Sorry, I was reading it that you were a creditor, until the last couple of sentences. My apologies.
Kazzy x
P.S. Who is your IP?
There is light at the end of that dark tunnel. Promise.
I agree Kazzy that we wouldn't want a place that was noticeable to the public. You never know who is watching. It's bad enough that BR is reported in the local paper and that names are on the register.
I am not sure what an asset hearing is, but I wouldn't think it would apply to most of us on here (apologies if I am wrong!).
I think the IVA system is good if you get the right IP (and lets face it, if you have a solicitor, there are good and bad in that profession as well), your options are explained to you, and you can have a face to face meeting if you wish. I would say that an IP is a case worker, and they work things out with your creditors. At the end of the day, your options are explained to you, and it is your choice which route you take.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
There is something akin to what credit allergy refers. If a debtor presents his or her own petition, and the Court learns that assets are over £4k and liabilities are less than £40k (I think) the Court can appoint an IP to report on whether an IVA would be more suitable. It's very rarely used, however.
I can understand where you are coming from here. There is a wide range of sources of advice although they can really only tell you they think you should be doing. Bear in mind that no advisor, however good they are, will know everything about everything.
The decision as to which solution is best for you must ultimately be and can only be yours. Life becomes more complicated because you can never tell whether the suggested solution is being recommended because that is effectively the only service they provide, or the only one they actually know something about. Further, there are a number of sources of advice, where the person giving the advice is so prejudiced against one solution or another that they will never recommend it, even when it is obviously the right one. As a direct result of such duff advice there are countless examples of:
People who go bankrupt when they shouldn't
People up to their necks in debt taking out extra credit cards because of a 0% introductory offer (Bankruptcy Restriction Orders await the unwary)
People signing up to DMPs and informal schemes that will take 20 years plus to clear.
People entering into IVAs when they should be doing something else.
The only real advice I can give you, that will possibly help you clear the fog, is to ensure that whoever recommends a solution to you is quite clear about why they recommend that particular solution above all others, and also points out the downside too.
Clearly as an Insolvency Practitioner I would consider myself able to give detailed advice on the areas in which I consider myself to be knowledgeable. Where I am outside my sphere of expertise, then I consider it my professional duty to to admit that I am not qualified to advise on that subject and to point the client in the direction of someone who can advise them properly. I think that rule should apply to everyone who claims to be able to advise but sadly it doesn't because many are not regulated. Therefore challenge the advice you receive so as to ascertain whether the advisor knows his or her subject or is just spouting bull.
Last edited by ianmillington on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ian Millington
Insolvency Director
PDHL Ltd (formerly Personal Debt Helpline Ltd) www.pdhl.co.uk
AN asset hearing is where a creditor orders you to court to see if you have assets and what you earn. They then decide on their next step. Family matters in court are held behind closed doors. How if you are having your house repossessed at court are you supposed to deal with a solictor from the other side if you are not eliglible for legal aid. I agree that an IP helps but I was thinking of something prior to it reaching that stage. Since being in debt it is disturbing the way in which some things shall we say have taken place. Debt is now a social problem and yes there are no debtors prisons which is why I am saying the current court system and reposseions needs reviewing.
Okay I see what you are getting at - get the debtor in court and then depending on what you learn go for execution (of tangibles!) or attachment of earnings or garnishee order - or possession of course.
yes, I agree with you that there is a David & Goliath situation here. I have known cases where the district judge has found against the creditor to support a debtor out of some sense of natural justice. However, in the majority of cases, the creditors £300 an hour lawyer will be far better placed to put his clients case than the debtor can state his or hers and so it is an uneven contest.
The voluntary agencies do everything they can of course, but there is a limit to what they and the professionals who offer free advice can actually do in that situation. Of no help to you at the moment (and I'm not sure when it's coming in - others may help here) but in due course there will be Enforcement Restriction Orders about which you can find information here. http://enforcementrestrictionorder.org.uk/
Ian
Ian Millington
Insolvency Director
PDHL Ltd (formerly Personal Debt Helpline Ltd) www.pdhl.co.uk
I have been involved in several of these cases in my career, and have rarely found that the Judge supports the action of creditor - especially if they are unable to be legally represented.
If you are honest with creditors about your statement of means, then they are unlikely to follow such a costly route of discovery.
Are you already in some form of insolvency procedure, or struggling to pay debt - or is this sum disputed in any way?
It is a repossesion from 2005 the property sale cleared the advance. However there are charges,interest and even an ERC. I challenged these charges but of course they didnt reply. In Feb they wrote to me and I said I am seeking advice. Heard nothing knock on door in July served with summons for asset hearing which took place yesterday. Do i fight and incur legal costs or preserve our sanity I have to decide. I do not qualify for legal aid so my decision will be based on how much pressure i can take. That cannot be right particulary in respect of The FSA MCOB etc. I hope this answers your question. One minute I am up and then I am down just like Derby County! Do they still play at the Base Ball ground.
Wednesdays hearing was just to fill a form in in front of a court officer. We are renting with no assests. The Mortgage company just summonsed us out of the blue. A letter querying the charges last year went unanswered and their last letter said they might take legal action in Feb about the so called shortfall. They didnt bother going to the hearing so I will have to wait and see. We feel the charges at best unfair in line with the FSAs MCOB shortfall rule at least. AT WORST i FEEL THE erc is a penalty and disproportaniate therefore unfair under ucctr regs 1999. If I dispute and lose I will have to pay costs. I cannot start any DMP or IVA if I am disputing the amount of debt. So for mine and my family's health, do I accept what I feel is wrong and try and move on. If they negiotated (a Solictor quoted £500.00) I might manage a DMP . However the presseure is relentless and I do not feel prepared to wait for the next offical court letter with enforcement action. I bet Brian Clough was never this indecisive!
£62,000 which includes £20,000 erc and repayment arrears prior to repossession. The house was not built correctly shortly after moving in to our dream home we were living in the local hotel with two children. Moved back to home but still wasnt right. When we had an ariel installed there was no loft insulation. Even though I had to pay £150 for an survey inspection day before completion. I have a 38 page surveyors report outlining faults I met MD of homebuilder twice. Anyway after 18 months of hell and not being able to work etc lost car and home. Sale cleared advance but left so called charges and interest. We are both workijng full time with good income. Started new bank account 2 years ago and it is fine. We have credit card debt etc been paying some others not. So our income is high but no assets. The problem is with the shortfall and in my heart of hearts it seems so unjust .However we wish to move on. I am sorry if my joke was below the belt. I would be happy to own a belt I have to make do with a piece of string!
