Payplan

[insol]

hi melanie, from a personal point of view i don't like dmc's that charge debtors as in my mind they are just exasserbating their situation. simply because in my view it's something the individual can do themselves and why pay a company to effectively write a bunch of cheques for you every month and it's money you could be paying your creditors some firms i've come across charge £40 - 60 per month.

now the CCCS don't charge the punter and they give the creditor the option to recover 85% of the debt the remainding 15% in theory is written off by the creditor but still paid by the debtor therefore the debtor is maintaining there obligation to repay but not expected to pay more than they owe. and we are appy to write the other 15% off. and any other companies like this that do not charge the debtor's i think are fab and the CCCs and Payplan are the only two as far as i'm aware that do this. i would be grateful that if you are aware of other firms that don't charge the cm cash that you let me know.

from a proffesional view i dislike all dmc's as my instruction from my main client is to return these to another collection agent unless they are a property owner. therfore if someone puts forward their own payment proposals we would normally snatch their hand off to get the cash. especially if this comes after a VA.

[insol]

melanie, that's purely for DMPs that i would advise going with those firms. for IVA's i know a few good firms here in the uk and in northern Ireland

[Andrew Graveson]

Hi insol,

I'm interested to learn why your organisation is happy to write-off 15% of the debt when it is a case handled by CCCS or Payplan?

I would have thought that the main responsibility was to maximise recovery?

Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[MelanieGiles]

Thanks for the clarification Insol - I often refer clients to both the CCCS and Payplan as well. What shocks me about this industry, and at the risk of making myself unpopular with the DM companies who post on the forum, is that DMPs do not seem to have a very finite lifespan, and I understand that the majority of them do not last through the second year. I wonder why this is?

I have dealt with a number of clients who have been with both Payplan and CCCS who actually end up owing more money than they started with, but I suppose no-one can bank on creditors stopping the interest continuing to be charged.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the DM industry with the arrival of SIVAs next year.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[insol]

hi andrew, between me, you and the gatepost. in normal collection cases my main client adds a 16% file referral charge on two of it's main products and the third main product has over 50% apr. so writing off 15% is no problem.

[Andrew Graveson]

Wow!

And it's DMP companies who are meant to be the bad guys?

Thank you for being so candid.

Surely it's still 15% extra that could be recovered though? I appreciate that the write-off doesn't present a financial problem in terms of the information that you have supplied but I don't really see how it answers the question as to why a CCCS/Payplan case is more welcome than a fee-charging DMP case.

There must be something extra to this isn't there?

Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[insol]

hi Andrew, i don't agree with what my client does and frankly i think it's shocking. unfortunately they pay my wages. the only discretion i have is that i don't add the referral fee in iva's unless we have already got a CCJ.
As far as i'm concerned payplan and the cccs bring nothing extra to a dmp than any other company apart from the theory that creditors will stump up the 15%.

it is only a personal point of view that i have. anyone can put forward payment proposals so why pay a company to do it for you. i know some people could do without the hassle of their creditors which is why they go for DMP's it that case i would refer to the CCCS my client, who was has had extensive talks with Payplan recomends that i also support payplan in dmp's only.but again that's because they theoritcally charge the 15%

[Andrew Graveson]

Thank you again insol. I appreciate that you have your job to do despite your concerns about the charges imposed by your client.

I think it's fascinating that your client:

1 - Is prepared to charge debtors 16% referral fees on cases, and interest rates in excess of 50%.

2 - Then becomes all warm and cuddly to debtors by recommending that they use a "free" DMP service and are even prepared to give up 15% of the debt to facilitate it.

The evidence seems to suggest that there's something more to this than meets the eye!

Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[insol]

i think, it's probably to be seen to be playing lip service to the banking code whereby if someone comes to them in financial strife they are obliged to be "helpful and sympathetic" which they are....to a point.. but you don't get something for nothing.

[Skipper]

Insol,

I have used CCCS before the Iva and have 100% recommendation for them!There appears to be this 15 hidden charge-but it is not 15% on top of your debt.

About Melanie's point about CCC clients seeing their debts increase - this could be due to reduced payments, and interest charges that is never 100% removed even in a accepted DMP. In a fee paying company the same can occur as they have no better influence to ask Creditors to freeze interest permanently.

I would be happy to pay IPs for their work and the legal protection but never a fee paying DMP service.

THE BRITISH BANKING CODE ON DEBT TALKS ABOUT WHY THE NEED TO PAY WHEN IT IS FREE-to debtors -maybe not the Banks




"Always think outside the box"

[Andrew Graveson]

Hi Skipper,

I can demonstrate lots of DMP cases where no interest or charges continue; your point is incorrect.

Your view seems to have changed somewhat since November 22nd when you stated the following:

"Ironically,free DMP agencies are not free. We know CCC get 15% off CREDITORS of what the return every year. Their Annual report show their income is nearly all from private sources. So CCCs isn't free.But creditors pay them as they do IPs.

So there is really no free DMP service."

http://www.iva.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TO ... hichpage=1

I will however repeat my previous statements that I think very many people are well served by CCCS and Payplan and that the different types of services offered within the industry appeal to different people in different circumstances.




Andrew Graveson
Mortgage Broker & Bright Oak Debt Management
andrew@brightoak.co.uk
www.brightoak.co.uk

[Skipper]

Ok,Andrew I read my old quote, and it is still consistent with the recent post that the debtor do not pay extra money on top of their debt.

Like in an IVA the debtor don't pay a separate fee on top of the debt.

So I am true to what I say.Unless the British Banking code on debt is modified I have to stick to my views.

I believe choice is inportant and people can choose either a fee paying DMP on top of your debt or CCC - fee minus from your debt as in an IVA


"Always think outside the box"

[johnt]

Thanks for the clarification Insol - I often refer clients to both the CCCS and Payplan as well. What shocks me about this industry, and at the risk of making myself unpopular with the DM companies who post on the forum, is that DMPs do not seem to have a very finite lifespan, and I understand that the majority of them do not last through the second year. I wonder why this is?

I have dealt with a number of clients who have been with both Payplan and CCCS who actually end up owing more money than they started with, but I suppose no-one can bank on creditors stopping the interest continuing to be charged.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the DM industry with the arrival of SIVAs next year.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

is that correct? I was under the impression that once the IVA was approved that any interest would be frozen. I understand that if ones earnings increase then a greater proportion of the original debt is repaid, but surely if earnings are unchanged then the IVA remains unchanged, being paid back on terms agreed during the plans proposal.

[MelanieGiles]

My point was about DMP's and not IVAs.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[Helper and Seeker]

Hello All,

I am with Payplan with my IVA.

And would recommend them. At the end of the day only they and CCCS are the only two companies when I was searching high and low for an independent company that are not into making any money for themselves as they are like a charity and their services are paid by others and not their clients.

My situation stretched their expertise to the limits as my case was kinda unique but they came through for me where as other firms I had tried and had many years experience did not have a clue where to really start.

Just started my IVA as from 12.10.07