ppi post iva

[Adam Davies]

Hi

I think we all agree now that any PPI that existed at the point the IVA was in place or had been taken out before the IVA on previous debts should be classed as an asset and payable into the IVA even if the IVA is concluded.

I must admit that several months ago I was advising people that any PPI claim they received AFTER their IVA was concluded was theirs to keep but it now looks as if I was wrong and I can see the reasoning behind this now.

We do however need difinitive information from The Insolvency Service about this to save endless debating.

Regards

[MelanieGiles]

I doubt that they will have anything to say about it Andy - the simple fact is the PPI is either an asset or a windfall.

I was also advising people that PPI received after an IVA had concluded was not caught by the IVA until I took specialist legal advice on the matter. It really does depend upon the wording of the IVA with regard to the asset position - so the issue is contractual rather than best practice.

What I find particularly frustrating is - just like the VAT issue - some firms deciding that they are not going to be bothered to pursue the matter in the best interests of creditors. And then those of us who are doing the right thing continue to get slated on this forum and elsewhere. I wonder how the creditors would react if I, or other firms, took such line - but this is a matter for the regulators at the end of the day in their next round of inspections.

[TigerTiger]

Andy, I agree absolutely. I also think the forum has done well to tease out a lot of what's been going on and highlight the lack of transparency in some major firms.

[TigerTiger]

Melanie, what have the creditors said to you ? Why don't they care that CCCS is operating a different policy ? Why are they relaxed about Payplan agreeing 40% commissions with claims companies ?

[MelanieGiles]

I regularly consult with all main creditor representatives, who tell me that they expect IPs to maximise realisations where possible. Having agreed to write off often substantial amounts through the IVA process, this is hardly a big suprise especially to those of us who work in the profession.

I have no idea about your two other questions - tending to concentrate more on what is happening within my own group of companies than outside of that. I do, however, understand why this inconsistency gives cause for concern, and it is an interesting contrast that the two firms in the "charity/fair share" sector do seem to be poles apart on both the VAT reclaim and PPI issue.

[TigerTiger]

Thanks Melanie. I think the 'big surprise ' is that the creditors seem to be operating a different policy with different companies and maybe someone should ask them about that.

[Foggy]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by MelanieGiles

I doubt that they will have anything to say about it Andy - the simple fact is the PPI is either an asset or a windfall.

I was also advising people that PPI received after an IVA had concluded was not caught by the IVA until I took specialist legal advice on the matter. It really does depend upon the wording of the IVA with regard to the asset position - so the issue is contractual rather than best practice.

What I find particularly frustrating is - just like the VAT issue - some firms deciding that they are not going to be bothered to pursue the matter in the best interests of creditors. And then those of us who are doing the right thing continue to get slated on this forum and elsewhere. I wonder how the creditors would react if I, or other firms, took such line - but this is a matter for the regulators at the end of the day in their next round of inspections.

I am not dsure that being slated for maximising returns is entirely accurate, Mel.

I think the majority of us agree that the money is due to the creditors ( and is often a trifle compared to that being written off - especially after factoring in the interest we have been rleased from paying over the term).

What most of us don't like is the larcenous commissions being paid to PPI claims companies along with the, frankly, bullying tactics being used by some otherwise well respected companies.

Add to the mix that IP's are jumping on this band wagon rather late in the day. The situation has been like this for a number of years, and so far ignored by IP's. Now, all of a sudden it's life or death and, in the panic, threatens to hold up (considerably) many completions.

As I have said before the IP's could have carried on ignoring (as they have done for years) those IVA's coming to term within, say, six months to a year. to avoid the delays.

IP's are not, on the whole, being "slated" for doing their jobs, but are being criticised for the way in which some are currently operating in regard to PPI.

As has been mentioned, it is particularly infuriating, if you are not fortunate to have a down to earth IP with a modicum of common sense, to witness the many and varied ways this is being dealt with.

The timing in relation to the VAT fiasco also stinks !

[Adam Davies]

Hi

I think you have summed the situation up really well Foggy.

I also think Melanie has been caught in the crossfire and should not be tarred with the same brush as she operates a very transparent company.

Regards

[Foggy]

Thank you Andy.

I agree that Melanie can no way be tarred with this brush and her companies set a high benchmark which many others should attempt to emulate.

[TigerTiger]

Foggy, I do agree with what are your obviously heartfelt views. Your comments on timing and IP discretion are particularly interesting since it does seem the creditors are being more than flexible with CCCS. Given that the CCCS PPI policy is presumably acceptable to the creditors, it does seem unfair that it's only their clients not facing the delayed completion certificates etc that you describe.

[Broke of London]

I won't be facing a delayed completion and I'm not with CCCS. Also, it isn't about IPs jumping on the bandwagon, it's about a situation coming to light at this point in time so most people reclaiming PPI will not have their completions delayed but a relative few will because it cannot be helped that they are due for completion as the issue came to light.

[Adam Davies]

Hi

PPI claims have been around for quite a few years BOL, I think the news that banks have put aside many millions of pounds to cover these potential claims has fuelled the surge in claims and claim companies and it has not been communicated very well.

One of my own clients had a letter and follow up call from his IVA provider at the start of this year and the caller inferred that if the client did not co-operate with a claim he would be in danger of breaching his IVA. This caused him great concern and worry, although the issue was sorted quickly and the client remained happy it just showed that poor communication was the downfall here, like most problems in life.

Regards

[Broke of London]

I realise PPI claims have been going on for a while. The situation i was referring to was ease with which banks are now paying it having set money aside which is far more recent. This time last year my IP couldn't help me reclaim PPI but by Christmas their stance had changed so drastically that anyone not cooperating was threatened with failure and the tone of the letters implied an intention to defraud the creditors!

[Foggy]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Broke of London

I won't be facing a delayed completion and I'm not with CCCS. Also, it isn't about IPs jumping on the bandwagon, it's about a situation coming to light at this point in time so most people reclaiming PPI will not have their completions delayed but a relative few will because it cannot be helped that they are due for completion as the issue came to light.

As Andy points out, this is not a newly arisen situation, and I am sure if you were one of those "relatively few" who have been placed in this position needlessly, you might feel differently.

Like you, I hope this will all be done and dusted by the time my IVA completes, so I am not directly affected, but that does not colour my opinion.

[Broke of London]

I'm aware the concept of mis-sold PPI and the ability to claim isn't new but it being easy because claims are being relatively uncontested is recent. I wouldn't say anyone is in this position needlessly...we all need to maximise returns from available assets. When a change like this happens at any given point in time there will be an affected minority and an unaffected majority - I'm not undermining how frustrating this is just highlighting that Tiger over-exaggerated the repercussions of PPI claims that "only CCCS clients are not facing delays to their completions" or some such wording. I feel it's important people get a balanced picture of what is going on.