Regarding "Mis-selling"

[OPTIMIST12]

There have been a number of posts recently (and indeed ever since I first started reading the forum) regarding people who feel that their IVA providers did not explain the other options that were available to them before they embarked on an IVA.

This morning I picked three well-known companies at random and looked at their websites. All three explain the options in some depth (IVA, Bankruptcy, and DMP). The information IS there.

I know that many people are in a very fragile and vulnerable frame of mind by the time they start looking for a financial solution and may grab at the first option offered. Would it not be possible for "R3" to publish an approved and plain-speaking leaflet - or leaflets - setting out the range of options which MUST be sent out by all IPs or providers together with - say - a 7 day "cooling-off" period for people to stop and think about things? (I have seen the R3 "Is a Voluntary Arrangement right for me" leaflet which is very good). The debtor would then be required to sign to confirm that they had read - and considered these. If the debtor then decides to proceed then there could be no argument that they were wrongly talked into going down the IVA route?

CCCS have very informative leaflets setting out the three options (they sent them to me!!) which gave me great initial advice and information.

[welshman]

Just a small point. The information was there for the ones you looked at. It doesn't mean they all include or explain this information. you would need to look at all companies to see before making a comment about mis-selling

[jpj]

At the end of the day there are only 3 main options....DMP,IVA or Bankcuptcy.
A DMP is not suitable for most people as it doesnt protect the debtor, interest can continue and they can be lenghty. Then you are left with an IVA or BR... Its hardly a huge selection to choose from and most people only fit into one or 2 options out the 3.
Its very easy to sit there and say you were "mis sold" something just because you didnt totally understand it, but that doesnt mean it was the wrong option.
There are good IVAs and bad IVAs, just because you get a bad one that isnt managed well doesnt mean an IVA was the wrong option.
Mis managing an IVA and mis selling an IVA are 2 different matters,and people should remember that!

[lily]

Some confusion is coming from the IVA council who send out official looking letters telling people that they have been mis-sold IVA's.....

Also if an individual phones a company and isnt given all of the options available, how are they to know??? Not everyone will do research and will be very stressed out at such a time. There have been a few posts with people believing or having been told that they are not allowed to go BR or incorrect consequences of BR, so therefore they are signing documents with that belief. I am not saying that this is mis-selling, just that it seems fully informed isnt a given in a few cases here.

Information about facts and options can only be a good thing.

[jpj]

Most people find this site whilst investigating what their debt options are! In this day and age it has never been easier to find out so many facts about a certain thing thanks to the internet.
People get mis sold cars,timeshares,endowment policies,warrantys etc etc...sadly mis selling will always be a fact of life...we just have to do all we can to limit it happening to us! wether stressed or not!

[lily]

Just expressing my opinion jpj, no need for the exclamations. Hard facts are true, doesnt mean we dont have to care about it or indeed acknowledge it. Not everyone is equally able to limit damage to themselves or has access to the internet.

Many find the forum too late.

[sjw]

unfortunatley not everyone is lucky enough to find this site and rush into things through desperation x

[emma_t]

This topic is always a bit of a 'hot potato' where people have strong opinions....
I can see both sides, having been in that position myself.

It is such a desperate time and some people may have been badly advised and maybe some didn't do enough research but it is a time when you feel very out of control and fragile and you clutch at straws when they are offered.
I went along with everything the first company I approached told me, I had no experience of insolvency and had never heard of an iva so had no reason to question them.
If I had not been looking around on the internet one night trying to find out more I would never have come accross this site and ended up becomming more informed.

If I had not been part of the forum I would have been in a state of panic if I recieved an official looking letter from ivac or similar as would not have the knowledge tha this is commonplace.

[ianmillington]

Interesting thread. Internet access to basic information is one thing, understanding that information is quite another. The matter must revolve around what is said, by and to whom, whether all the pros and cons were pointed out and, very importantly, whether or not there was bias in the way that information was put forward. IPs have Best Practice requirements to consider and if we don't follow these principles we can lose our right to practice.

For this reason I (and I suspect many of my peers) are forced into creating a paperwork blizzard mainly to demonstrate that advice appropriate to the debtors circumstances has been given. I don't know what the others do, but all my clients receive a document setting out the pros and cons of each of the main procedures which they have to sign and return before I will even Consent to Act.

Given the lengths that I and no doubt many of my peers go to (although I imagine there will be a few who don't)it really rattles my cage that an outfit like the IVA council can tell people that simply because they don't own a house and won't lose their job they have been mis-advised if they go into an IVA. It ignores all the emotional factors that probably went into the decision to do the IVA in the first place and, on that basis, it is arguable that they are mis-selling bankruptcy. This is presumably because they make a few quid out of it. Now, if they had a license to lose, wouldn't that be interesting?

I must calm down!

Ian

[OPTIMIST12]

Of the three I picked - two were companies who have recently come in for some "stick" on the forum - the third never gets a mention. Like I said on my initial post - all gave jolly good advice on the three major options.

To welshman- I take your point - when I get a chance I will look at many more IVA Provider websites and see if any DO actually fail to provide details of the three options. So far I have no evidence that any do so. Can you provide some examples please?

To jpj - I think you make some good points.

To lily - I know we have have major differences of opinion (nothing wrong with that!!!) BUT I would argue that people seeking debt advice do have a responsibility to research their options themselves. I am just an average person but I trawled the website, visited my local library, and had in-depth talks with CCCS before deciding my path. I had no idea about anything about insolvency at that time. I actually put finance on a par with health - if I had to seek a solution to a mediacal problem then no way would I just jump in with the first solution I was offered. There MUST be a degree of individual responsibility (I think).

Anyway - if my suggestion of an R3 leaflet - and a "cooling-off" period was intoduced then there really would be no excuse for people not having a chance to research their options to the max.

Thanks everyone for your very interesting replies.

[jpj]

Sorry Lilly,I wasnt having a go at you.
If I was capable of limiting damage to myself I wouldnt have ended up £130k in debt.
I too found this forum too late (a year into my IVA) but I luckily ended up with a good IVA that suited me, but that was down to luck,not good judgement.
I was vunerable and went with the first company I spoke to.

IVAs should have a "key facts" sheet like mortgages, stating all the key points in black and white"

[lily]

No worries jpj. I would have gone with the first company also but they didnt email me like they said they would so I phoned another and was very confused by the different information I was given.

Optimist. I think the main difference between us is that you seem to see things in plain black and white and I dont. Perhaps because of my life experiences. We are not all the same, we have different abilities in every area and I do not disagree that its important to check things out for yourself.

To one it might be that everything they do is very carefully considered and looked into but another might be so overwhelmed, distressed and in need they just dont consider gaining info and believe that they can solve it with one call.

One might be patient and another impatient. I was the latter, I was so afraid of what would happen to my children, I wanted it sorted by these professionals acting under 'government legislation'. I may have been very wrong for doing that instinctive thing but as a single mom with a very stressful job, plus being harrassed to the point of feeling suicidal. I really didnt have the mind to question it all at that time.

[OPTIMIST12]

Lily - Yes, I must admit that I do see things in black and white terms when it comes to signing up to a legally binding agreement like an IVA. That is why I am so keen to try and impress upon people how vital it is to make sure that an IVA really IS the right solution before you sign up to it.

And as a single person with no children I realise I do not have the added stress of a family to take into the equation. BUT I do think that - if a person enters an IVA through desperation and without researching their other options - then it is not fair to then blame their IVA provider or IP and accuse them of mis-selling.

[sjw]

optomist, the thing is it is a matter of trust or naivitity when someone contacts a firm believing them to be reputable they trust what they are being told so do not always look into it any deeper and maybe if they had, other options may have been more suitable-- hindsight is a wonderfull thing . sue x

[chris.g]

I think sometimes during the build up to a person dealing with their debt, there are very worrying, confusing and pressured times. When time is of the essence and getting the ball moving, I can understand how some 'jump' at the first company offering a solution. People looking for a way out don't always hear the cons of the solution, only the pros. Solving their debt problem is such a strong desire, they go into DMP/IVA/BR wearing blinkers. Some companies MAY take advantage of this and build the pro's up while playing the cons down....