As with all IVAs, the IP or the IP firm should send you a letter of engagement or terms of business stating what fees would be involved in respect of the work carried out by the Nominee. So prior to your proposal being prepared you should have an awareness of this fee. Now if you are a consumer (i.e. take a wage from a business or in receipt of regular benefits or pensions and not self employed and running a business) then this nominee fee is usually limited to 1,500GBP or 3000GBP for joint proposals, if your IP has stated more this will more than likely be reduced by the creditors at the meeting, I know from personal experience that now KPMG, Grant Thornton, Eversheds and TIX (who are major creditor representatives and vote at the meeting) reduce fees to this effect.
The supervisor will also need to be remunerated but this will be on a timecost basis and can only be drawn in proportion to funds received and asset realised, these drawings are usually limited to 15% of money received.
Isaac Mears - Insolvency Administrator and Student.
"Individual Voluntary Arrangement - remember they're VOLUNTARY!... don't get pushed into one!"
In most firms, fees are actually calculated by reference to the particular job and the amount that it is felt will actually be incurred. I do not go with industry stated benchmarks - for instance it does not cost twice as much to act for married couples as it does to act for a single person.
IPs are rarely renumerated on the basis of timecosts these days - it is more general to see fixed fees or remuneration based on the amount of realisations.
And just a point on letters of engagement - you (the debtor) actually have to agree the level of your IP's fee - so if it does not look right, query the basis on which the chargesx are to be raised.
Without exception, the voting representatives referred to above have differing fee criteria, making life for an IP an absolute lottery without knowing what we will eventually be paid for work done - and little opportunity but to accept our lot when this is limited by creditors - often to a situation when we will actually make a loss.
IP firms should not all be tarred with the same brush - there are good and bad large firms and good and bad small firms. Some have more specialist knowledge than others in certain arears, and some provide a full range of debt solutions - regulated and unregulated. Most of us work hard for our livings, and the sort of publicity raised by the original poster - coupled with the antics of the so called "bankruptcy assist" industry, unfortunately serve to damage the reputation of all of us in certain circles.
Last edited by MelanieGiles on Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
hi i sometimes think the fees are little high but when i think back to all the hassle we had trying to get all our creditors to stop interest and agree a reduced payment ie all the letters,phone calls and time im happy to pay the fee of our ip as they then took it our of our hands small price to pay i beleive for peace of mind and good nights sleep
Contact with the IP in larger firms seems to be none existant.
I have never spoken to mine.
You go through 'advisors/case officers'(call centre staff) who seem to stray from the script or don't have a clue refering to the level above them, their team leader.
My final expenditure sheet totals bore little resembalance to the submitted version. Its the bottom line they seem to be interested in.
Their approach is 'pally' but you feel uneasy about motives!
Most know you are at the end of your tether and will sign your life away to find a solution.
Hi
A warm welcome to Isaac Mears.
It is important that you are comfortable with both your proposal and the company that you are dealing with. In many practices, even mid to small size you will usually deal with the case worker/office manager and there is no problem with this as long as you receive good advice and service. You also need to be sure that you can actually speak with your insolvency practitioner when the need arises.
Regards
I usually deal with my case worker, and I have no problems with them at all and I am with Payplan, one of the larger companies. My IP phoned me up personally to tell me about being approved.
I was never made to make my I&E fit what they thought it should be and no one should ever do that.
Anyone going for an IVA should make sure they are happy with the company they use.
Is your IVA now failing Hugo?
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
Hi I just thought I would say I agree with hugo on some points as I am now 18 months into my iva and if i knew then what I know now things would be different as I was advised that an IVA is the best way forward but why?
My house is in negative equity so if I had gone bankrupt I would only pay for 3 years not 6 and I would not have lost my house anyway and could have had someone to buy the interest for £1 plus fees.But I feel I was advised to do this so the company can make fees and you end up paying 10 - 13000 on top of the original debt (for joint IVA) so if you are in a situation like me then you will pay back over 10000 on top of your original debt so please think about this before considering an IVA.Also being in an IVA is a very depressing life for such a long time they take every penny they can like in my case they are taking every penny my wife earns which is over £1000 per month.
Companies should give you free and impartial advice, and we certainly had that. A company will leave the choice of debt freedom up to you. Nobody twists your arm.
We are certainly not paying anything like that fees wise for our IVA's and we always wanted the opportunity to pay back the creditors as much as possible. After all, we borrowed the money with the intention of paying them back.
OK, you won't have much spare money left, but it will teach you to budget and you should be able to manage. Things will be tight, but you just have to put up with it.
If you are struggling Johns, you need to speak to your IP about this.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
Hi Kallis I did take advice but from a debt company not I should have gone to somebody impartial but I didnt know anything about all this and I certainly agree that if you borrow money you should pay it back but to pay extra on top when you are already up to your eyes is stupid.You are also right when you say nobody twists your arm but I dont feel things were fully explained to me at all and you feel frightened and truthfully when your desperate you will accept anything they tell you.I just wish I knew about this forum before I took one out and some people think IVA'S are great and some people think their not.I am just trying to help people really think before they enter one and get free advice first.
They do need to get good advice, and I do agree that people will grab at straws.
I must admit though that I was given excellent advice about all of my options, and an IVA was the right thing for me.
Unfortunately, not everyone finds this forum first, myself included!
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
There exists a fundamental conflict of interest in companies that gain all their revenue through IVA fees offering you free 'impartial advice' on debt solutons.
What would a Pork Butcher recommend you have for tea? something someone else is selling up the road!! No he would recommend pork even if you were a vegetarian.
I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.
The initial advice is free - it is up to you whether or not you agree with the advice given.
I, and I'm sure a good many other posters on here, have no problem with the fees charged and the service provided.
If I was a vegetarian - I wouldn't be going anywhere near a butcher anyway?
Is your IVA failing Hugo?
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
The message from this thread is that IPs should not be recommending solutions, but to simply giving advice about the merits and demerits of each one - allowing their clients to choose the route that they feel is most appropriate. I actually believe that most practising IPs do actually share this view - but clearly there may be some firms where the options may not be so fully explained.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
I agree Melanie.
I can only comment on my personal experiences.
I have heard only good things about the smaller independants who rely on their good reputations. Explain all possibilities and solutions looking to their clients best interests.
This unfortunately has not been my experience entirely.
On 3 internet calculators I was recommended DMP's.
DFD and Payplan's computers recommended IVA's, nothing else.
DFD kept ringing me x 5 + 3 letters - to help me (or sign me up) worse than the creditors.
Payplan even arranged a telephone call on a Saturday afternoon (try speaking to your case officer now on a Saturday).
My options were put as DMP - 7 years + and your creditors can still get at you (inference Bad), bankruptcy not explained at all really, just Bad. IVA's were positively wonderful, we can sort you (kept quiet about the negatives!) and you would be debt free in 5 years, or 5.5 after the creditors meeting! You have half the information but are unaware the other half exists! (all information from advisors not IP's)
As for signing the agreement, it was my choice - by that point you are in such a state through stress - you will sign almost anything to settle the matter and they know that. I was kept waiting for a phone call almost an hour from the end of the creditors meeting - almost climbing the wall by that point.
My circumstances have now changed dramaticaly and cannot afford the £600 pm IVA and will file for BR in May hopefully.
My IVA experience has been an eye-opener-many people have commented on 'if only I had seen this forum first', I concur.
