Small Business Debt

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ellie 553

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Post by ellie 553 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:08 am
We are trying to sell our business and currently owe £24,000 in VAT and Tax. I went to see the bank yesterday and they said they cant lend us any more money which I expected. We have an overdaft which I need to use over the winter to keep the business alive. The only way we can repay this money is by selling the business or our house but does anyone have any advice as to what we do until that happens?[?]
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:08 pm
Hi Ellie and welcome to the forum

Have you considered whether an IVA is an appropriate way for you to deal with your creditors? How much do you owe to other creditors other than HMRC? Is your business trading profitably, and could you afford to make monthly contributions towards your debts? What sort of business is it, and how much is it worth? How much equity do you have in your property.

Sorry - lots of questions, but essential information to be able to give better guidance.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

ellie 553

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Post by ellie 553 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:13 pm
The business has been valued at £200,000 and the house at £155,000. We have a mortgage of £88,000 and a Business Loan of £118,000 in total. Part of the business loan is with the Small Firms Loan Guarantee Scheme, and the smaller part (£18,000 of the total) is a secured loan on the house.
Both the house & business are up for sale but no buyer for either yet. We have another unsecured loan with a finance company that ends in February (about £6000 left to pay) and an overdraft of £6000 as of today. We are a restaurant so we also have suppliers on terms of 30 days that we owe money to which is why I want to keep the overdraft use to pay suppliers & staff as with out them we cant stay open.
The business has accounts up to April 2006 which show it is profitable - turnover of £300,000 a year with recon. net profit of £60,000. However, this year has been terrible for us so far and instead of the usual position we are in of having around £15,000 in the bank for the winter, we are already overdrawn.So to answer your question on profitability - I can produce figures that would indicate profitability even for this year but our cashflow situation combined with the debt means in reality we are really struggling. It is a fairly seasonal area so expect it to go down over the winter.
We were on the annual accounting scheme for VAT which worked really well but they took us of it for a couple of late payments over the last 3 years.
We could afford to make monthly payments and we have an agreement to pay £500 of tax each month at the moment.
At the moment we have a couple of prospective buyers for the business but no interest in the house but we have no idea how long it may take to sell either.
We have been running the business for 4 years and it has always been a struggle so there isnt much left to try to increase our sales. We both work 50 hrs a week & have 2 children so we cant cut staff costs any more.
We bought the business partially on the advice that it was extremely profitable from our bank manager at lloyds tsb who had managed the previous 2 owners accounts, and it is obvious that either we were seriously misled or that he was at the time. Of course, there is nothing they can do to help now !
Hope this helps give a clearer picture
 
 

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Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:15 pm
Good information - thanks, but how much do you actually owe to unsecured creditors in total (including trade and other business creditors), and what equity will be left assuming the house and the business sell for the asking prices?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

ellie 553

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Post by ellie 553 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:10 pm
In total unsecured debt is £45,000. The total of our mortgage and business loans is £206,000 (£88,000 mortage, £18,000 secured business loan and £100,000 SFLGS loan with lloyds tsb)we hope to sell the house for £155,000 which gives £67,000 equity, and the business for £200,000 giving another £82,000 equity. I should add that it is a leasehold business and it would be worth nothing if it was not sold as a going concern as the main value is in the goodwill.
At the moment we also owe our parents £21,000 which we agreed would be repaid from house or business sale, and this is not included in the unsecured debt figure of £45,000 above.
The bank have told me that the SFLGS loan is secured on our house but I am sure that isnt right. The smaller part is secured (£18,000) and so is the overdraft which can go up to £25,000 over the winter if necessary.I went to see the bank yesterday and they told me that if we sell the house first the bank would expect the secured loan to be paid off first and then the rest of the equity to be put into a savings account as security against the SFLGS loan. I didnt question it - just thought I would check it out for myself. I didnt tell them about the VAT or tax money owing as I do not trust them to give me good advice any more, and I have for their help before but been unsuccessful.
If we cant sell our house or business in the next 6 months we may end up being further in debt than we are already. I have a viewing at the restaurant on Friday and am seriously consideing telling the agents that we want a quick sale due to ill health (not far off the truth) and reducing the price, but I dont want to scare off potential buyers by appearing desperate!
I am finding reading other threads in here very helpful but there isnt that much about business debt so I really appreciate your help!
 
 

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Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:46 pm
Hi there

Thanks for the additional information - you are not insolvent on an assets basis, but insolvent on an inability to service debts on time basis.

Having been involved in many distressed business sales in my career, I would not hold my breath over the equity in the business, but wish you good luck on finding a suitable buyer.

It seems to me that you need to find some way of stalling HMRC until your house has sold. At what stage are their collection proceedings against you?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

ellie 553

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Post by ellie 553 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:26 pm
I wrote 2 them 2 weeks ago explaining the situation and have not heard back yet. I am going to pay then £1500 on Friday but I have no idea what to expect after that. They may end up taking us to court or they may except a payment plan until we sell either the house or the business. The business willl probably take between £5,000 and £7,000 a week over the next 3 or 4 months. Would an IVA be a possibility in our current situation ? Can you explain a bit more about insolvency & recommend anywhere we can get good inpartial advice at all - we live in Cornwall
Thanks !
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:25 pm
I have an office in Plymouth if that is any good!!

Seriously, so long as you keep up even the smallest of regular payments to HMRC, this will keep the account alive and perhaps avoid legal action being taken against you. Keep them as informed as you can, and they are usually pretty reasonable.

I do not feel that you need the unecessary expense of an IVA, but you certainly need to keep a careful eye on the business and use whatever spare money you have to reduce your debts. If they do take you to Court, then this is the time to perhaps take more specialist advice.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

ellie 553

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Post by ellie 553 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:33 pm
Thanks Melanie !
Do you have contact details on your website for your Plymouth office if I need more advice? Thanks for all your help today.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:37 pm
Ellie

Look on my other website - www.jonesgiles.co.uk for details of my Plymouth office.



Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:02 pm
Hi
Where do you find the time Melanie to help so much on this forum ???????

Andy Davie
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Soulgrowth

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Post by Soulgrowth » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:47 pm
Isn't she just brilliant!! :)

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ellie 553

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Post by ellie 553 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:54 pm
UPDATE
2 weeks after this post we had a distraint officer turn up at the restaurant to collect the missed VAT payment. I had to give a list of stock and pay on the spot which I did. The problem is now we are 3 months behind again so I am expecting another visit in around 6 weeks but this time I don't think we'll be able to pay. They didn't even respond to the letter I had sent them explaining our situation but he did have a photocopy of it which he helpfully left in full view of several members of staff !
So....I have a few numbers to ring for advice but can't seem to get an action plan together. Until the business or house get sold we simply cannot repay these debts. We also have an income of around £5000 a week at the moment but an overdraft of £10,000 with a limit of £20,000 which I predict we will be up to by Xmas WITHOUT paying the VAT arrears.
I really do feel like jacking it in, handing the keys back to the landlord and giving up but that isnt realistic or fair (also the business would worth nothing if I did that and have £130,000 bank loan to pay off)
Good news is I have developed a sense of humour about the whole situation and I know me and my family will all be ok in the end whatever happens. I just want to get an action plan together and DO something about it now instead of waiting for the inevitable to happen (ie HM Customs turning up and repossesing my kids)!!!
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:51 am
Ellie

Can I urge you to take some professional advice, as the very fact that you are discussing your difficulties with someone who can help will feel like a burden lifted. There may be no magic solutions, but I always say that a problem shared is a problem solved.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
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Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:34 am
Good luck Ellie, I really hope you can work something out.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

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